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I don't think Shizune was bullying her at all. Shizune was being Shizune and Hanako was being Hanako. I actually found Shizune interesting, particularly her challenging attitude (you can take it the both ways) and what's said above is so true!

shizune is straight with hisao the whole time ( maybe to blunt and forceful at times yes ) but never onced lied or hide anything from hisao ... hiso and misha where the ones that hide the fact that they had sex from shizune ... you ppl can have your lilly ( you found out about the trip to scotland from her sister ... what else will lilly hide from hisao because she thinks he can't cope ) , i rather have the truthful bitch ( shizune ) then the lying saint ( lilly )

rydiafan wrote: i rather have the truthful bitch ( shizune ) then the lying saint ( lilly )

Well, truth is highly overrated. Not in the case of Scotland though...



Back to topic, i thought that it was a great time. Shizune was actually nice to her. Well she scared her off in the end, but so did Hisao on some occasions... The fact that Hanako is Lillys friend and she invites her to spend time with her is telling. She did not wanted to humiliate her or needed to best her, she was no challenge really.
Also we can learn something about Hanako, from what Shizune tells us after. Like that Hanako was taught to play chess, and likely by her family, since she is not really into learning to win, but she likes to play because of emotional attachment.
So, no, i dont think she was bullied, or that she felt that way, or that it was bad for her. Business as usual, or maybe even better than that, since she was not treated as broken or weak, or felt as being a burden on someone. Shizune was a bit much for her to handle so she went back to the reliable defense run.
When the scene was over i thought: Well that went surprisingly well! xD (For the record i like Hanako really, so i still wanted to go after her)

I don't think Hanako's very concerned about losing. She mostly plays games because it allows her to feel normal. While she takes games very seriously and tries very hard to win, being beaten isn't likely to scar her or anything.

Hanako plays games because she likes playing games. It's one of the few things you see her do that seems to always make her happy.

Shizune doesn't just like to play games. She likes to beat people at games. Once she's beat them, she considers rubbing it in their face to be one of the perks of victory. She's shown that she's better than you and has no problem gloating about it. Due to her complete inability to relate to people, she doesn't see what's wrong with humiliating a person then smiling at them, shaking their hand, and going "no hard feelings, right?" In her mind, her gloating at victory is kept completely separate from any other relationship she might have with that person.

In a way, it's kinda sad. Hanako and Shizune are both people that are in desperate need of friends and if Shizune could tone down her behavior just a tad, they might actually have been able to bond over playing games together.

Oddball wrote: In a way, it's kinda sad. Hanako and Shizune are both people that are in desperate need of friends and if Shizune could tone down her behavior just a tad, they might actually have been able to bond over playing games together.

Yes, that's exactly what I have in mind. I agree with you.

Shizune's lack of ability to relate to people comes in a package with her disability: deaf-muteness.

In a world where language and communication is pivotal in everyday life, not being able to hear or speak would isolate you from the rest. Even if she is Japanese, other people of the same country wouldn't even understand her--sign language can be considered as a 'language' of its own; add this to the fact that no one in her family knows how to speak to her during her early years. Being able to speak and hear means you can easily relate with people, and sometimes you can even make bullshits so great that you yourself would believe it.

Sign language, on the other hand, adds a 'weight' to it. You can lie, but they can't tell if it's a lie or not--that's why Shizune mentions how people should 'think' before saying something in sign language as it holds more weight and requires a lot more trust for one person to communicate with the other. This also separates her from the rest of the world that uses 'voice' to communicate, isolating her with a small number of people that actually understands her (albeit by overcoming the language barrier).

Add her competitive nature in the mix and you have someone who can be a little hard to get along with at first, but once you get to know that person inside out and overcome that language barrier, you'll find out that she is that flower that blooms across the desert sand.

Oddball wrote:Shizune doesn't just like to play games. She likes to beat people at games. Once she's beat them, she considers rubbing it in their face to be one of the perks of victory. She's shown that she's better than you and has no problem gloating about it. Due to her complete inability to relate to people, she doesn't see what's wrong with humiliating a person then smiling at them, shaking their hand, and going "no hard feelings, right?" In her mind, her gloating at victory is kept completely separate from any other relationship she might have with that person.

I don't think this characterization of Shizune is entirely correct. Instead, I would say she likes to play games because she enjoys seeing the passion others exhibit during the course of competition. Winning doesn't actually matter to her very much, and she has no desire to gloat about her victories. In the text of the story, when she wins a competition, her first reaction is usually to compliment her opponent, even if she was the winner. For example, in Advanced Game Theory, immediately after the first game of chess with Hanako (which Shizune wins), Shizune says (with Misha's characteristic lilt, of course) "That was a really good game~! It was really close~, I thought I would lose. You're very skilled."

Her sole reasoning for challenging Hanako to speed chess is because she thinks it will be more exciting and Hanako will enjoy it more. And even after the rule change, when Shizune demolishes Hanako, Shizune is eager to play more ("Let's change the rules and play again~! Best out of six, like Kasparov and Deep Blue~!"). She's basically trying her hardest to be friendly to Hanako and get her caught up in the action (as she does with everyone).

Tragically, Hanako probably misinterprets Shizune's eagerness in much the same way you did, believes Shizune is taking pleasure in defeating her, and thus flees the scene.

Oddball wrote:In a way, it's kinda sad. Hanako and Shizune are both people that are in desperate need of friends and if Shizune could tone down her behavior just a tad, they might actually have been able to bond over playing games together.

Exactly. Poor Shizune, poor Hanako

loling @ the hanako white knights thinking shizune bullied her into playing chess and losing at the end.

Mirrormn wrote:Winning doesn't actually matter to her very much, and she has no desire to gloat about her victories

Darn I must've been playing the wrong version f KS.

newnar wrote:

Mirrormn wrote:Winning doesn't actually matter to her very much, and she has no desire to gloat about her victories

Darn I must've been playing the wrong version f KS.

You probably have the version where you read Shizune's route too fast and misinterpret her personality. A lot of people seem to have that version

But seriously, I guess it might be an overstatement to say winning doesn't matter to her; she does enjoy the act of victory, sure. And although she is magnanimous upon winning, she does gloat about it occasionally, especially when the competitor in question is not around (e.g., in Off By One: "I already did [talk to Misha]. Over a game of dice. Under-Over, to be exact. I won! Five times!") But I still think the enjoyment she gets from the passion and excitement of competition itself is larger and more important to her, and is her main motivation for challenging Hanako at chess.

Snow_Storm wrote:loling @ the hanako white knights thinking shizune bullied her into playing chess and losing at the end.

lol inorite? if they were in hisao's shoes they would get the bad ending with Hanako every time.

Snow_Storm wrote:loling @ the hanako white knights thinking shizune bullied her into playing chess and losing at the end.

I thought you're one of them...

hummm =.=

I really believed the "Shizune doesn´t see her competitive behavior as a real part of her relationship to people", because... because I got involved into politics, and with time I learned that political rivals can bem friends... we take a beer together some times, talk about non-important stuff.. we are not enemies. But during the electoral campaign it is a completely different thing. In fact, DURING the campaign, we are still friends outside the public view. But when in scene, we barely hold the will to punch the others in the face.

It´s like an altered mental state, ya know.

..............

Which brings another nonsense tought into my mind: imagine yourself dating Hanako... whenever we went to the beach, there would be one or more ocasions in which I would have to use the words "Hey! You there! Why don´t you go stare at you mamma?"

megiddo wrote:

Snow_Storm wrote:loling @ the hanako white knights thinking shizune bullied her into playing chess and losing at the end.

lol inorite? if they were in hisao's shoes they would get the bad ending with Hanako every time.

I don't think they would even make it that far. In fact, the only bad ending they would get woudl be the Kenji ending and even if they step foot in Hanako's route, she would find her fans to be creepy.

Megumeru wrote:

Snow_Storm wrote:loling @ the hanako white knights thinking shizune bullied her into playing chess and losing at the end.

I thought you're one of them...

hummm =.=

Have you not seen my past posts where I basically mock people gettin' butthurt over fictional characters or mocking those who got upset over the fanart image of Hanako hanging herself to commit suicide?

It´s funny because in this very same site, the logo says "don´t worry, it´s just a game"...

... and in fact it is! Just a game!

I started this thread and I must explai something: I don´t really care about that fictional character, Hanako... but while we are int this forum, and while we play, we turn on some kind of suspension of disbelief.