Katawa Shoujo Forums

UncleJellyfish wrote:So, this has been nagging me for a while, and I finally decided to ask about it.

In Lilly's arc, when she comes back from her trip to Scotland, she confesses to Hisao and they become a couple. It is later revealed that she received a summons to return to her family and live with them in Scotland. She received the summons while she was visiting her family, BEFORE her and Hisao ended up dating.

So, my question is, why did she start the relationship in the first place if she already knew that she might be moving away? On top of that, why did she still decide to go even after they started dating? Wouldn't it make more sense to decide first before confessing her feelings, or let Hisao know about her summons sooner? I understand that she didn't want to experience the same thing she went through at her old school (not confessing her feelings to her teacher and never seeing him again), but to actively start a relationship with the knowledge that she was likely to be moving away, it just seems like a bitch move on her part.

Thoughts?

As Alfred Fucking Lord Tennyson said Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

UncleJellyfish wrote:

danyo wrote:I didn't read everything people posted, but my thoughts are that she WANTED hisao to tell her not to go, wich he realised ( almost ) too late.

Hadn't thought of this, but that's a very good point. Having just experienced something like this in real life (though not to the extend of "I'll never see them again"), it makes me wonder if her deciding to go was actually to test Hisao to see if he'd try to make her stay.

I think "needed" would be more appropriate. Makes it less like a conscious decision. Somehow I would imagine that the idea of "choice" in a family like that is not quite as easy as it is made out to be. So going against that would require some exceptional strong reasons which weren't provided by anyone.

Now if you really want something to think about. When do you think she made up her mind to stay? Was that before or after Hisao asked her to?

Alternatively:

She didn't go to Scotland at all, just bunkered down for some time (told Hanako first she'll have her knees broken if she ever touches her man), then came back, teased Hisao a little, blackmailed Akira to relay the message about her leaving for good, then substituted Hisao's medicine for m&m's and waited at the airport with a bribed ambulance crew for his heart to kick the bucket. Then made her unexpected appearance at the hospital, thus binding the pray mentally and emotionally, everything orchestrated with a help of a certain scarfed friend from blind kids classes.

Yep, here it is, everything explained in one, simple, grammar-mutilating sentence.

NoOne3 wrote:Alternatively:

She didn't go to Scotland at all, just bunkered down for some time (told Hanako first she'll have her knees broken if she ever touches her man), then came back, teased Hisao a little, blackmailed Akira to relay the message about her leaving for good, then substituted Hisao's medicine for m&m's and waited at the airport with a bribed ambulance crew for his heart to kick the bucket. Then made her unexpected appearance at the hospital, thus binding the pray mentally and emotionally, everything orchestrated with a help of a certain scarfed friend from blind kids classes.

Yep, here it is, everything explained in one, simple, grammar-mutilating sentence.

This is definitely canon... totally opened my eyes up to what really happened, man!

So what you're saying is, the origami crane was actually a tracking device?

Played both endings yesterday, got the neutral one first and totally wasn't satisfied with just saying goodbye, so went back and got the happy ending... so much better... thats how it should have ended... I'm happy now... Lilly is number 1 in my heart...

Mahorfeus wrote:So what you're saying is, the origami crane was actually a tracking device?

Might be, might be... she's unable to use hacked school CCTV cameras, so hidden microphone-transmitter-GPS device had to be used of course.

Zig_Zac wrote:Played both endings yesterday, got the neutral one first and totally wasn't satisfied with just saying goodbye, so went back and got the happy ending... so much better... thats how it should have ended... I'm happy now... Lilly is number 1 in my heart...

hmmm. How does this answer the question?

Anyway, OT: I guess many people already said it, and I trhink I got it from here. Anyway, it's because of her façade of being prim and proper, while still having emotions swirling around in her. She doesn't seem to think much of them and shoves them aside for whatever she does need to do...

Come to think of it, it's kind of hard to pin down. Still, I wouldn't say she's a bad person, she just keeps too many things to herself. I guess that's pretty evident though, but those are my thoughts on the matter.

NoOne3 wrote:

Mahorfeus wrote:So what you're saying is, the origami crane was actually a tracking device?

Might be, might be... she's unable to use hacked school CCTV cameras, so hidden microphone-transmitter-GPS device had to be used of course.

Probably a gift from Hanako,considering Lilly's proficiency with modern technology. Oh crap that means Hanako musta been secretly monitoring the entire thing! She must have secretly been in love with Hisao the entire Lilly route! Oh shit, her route trip was probably a farce and she only opened up to the newpaper club just to see Hisao happy at her development and she can't confess to him because Lilly is in the way and Hanako doesn't want to hurt Lilly but more than anything she doesn't want to hurt Hisao because she loves him. So she pretends to not interfere in their relationship while painfully watching them from the spycrane, putting the hurt on herself.

newnar wrote:

NoOne3 wrote:

Mahorfeus wrote:So what you're saying is, the origami crane was actually a tracking device?

Might be, might be... she's unable to use hacked school CCTV cameras, so hidden microphone-transmitter-GPS device had to be used of course.

Probably a gift from Hanako,considering Lilly's proficiency with modern technology. Oh crap that means Hanako musta been secretly monitoring the entire thing! She must have secretly been in love with Hisao the entire Lilly route! Oh shit, her route trip was probably a farce and she only opened up to the newpaper club just to see Hisao happy at her development and she can't confess to him because Lilly is in the way and Hanako doesn't want to hurt Lilly but more than anything she doesn't want to hurt Hisao because she loves him. So she pretends to not interfere in their relationship while painfully watching them from the spycrane, putting the hurt on herself.

That surprisingly made perfect sense despite what the post seems at first.

Time to replay lilly's arc and cry myself a river

yipyapper wrote:That surprisingly made perfect sense despite what the post seems at first.

That cannot be!

newnar wrote:she can't confess to him because Lilly is in the way and Hanako doesn't want to hurt Lilly but more than anything be wheelchair bound for the rest of her life

There, fixed it for You.
And Newnar, here you have some comas, they can be useful (though I see you had one left): (, , , , , ,) rule of thumb: read the sentence, and put a comma when you have to take your breath, that's what I do (I guess asthma would improve my punctuation).

And I will stop getting on your nerves right now, though I can't stand one direction way these threads tends to take.

Yeah, Lilly never planned to confess. Like with her tutor she once had a crush on, she planned to just repress her feelings behind her usual poker face. Then Hisao had a heart flutter, Lilly was taken off guard and forced to repress her own anxiety for Hanako's sake so eventually the floodgates broke. My guess is that afterwards, not having the emotional strength to immediately back out of their relationship, she just decided to enjoy the moments they had for the time being. (an uncharacteristic move from her usual carefully rehearsed way of doing things)

I think Lilly intended to tell Hisao at some point or another, but kept putting it off because she didn't know how to break it to him. While this may seem a weak excuse for delaying such an important announcement, this is very much in line with Lilly's personality. She always carefully rehearses something in her head before saying or doing it and I figure if she'd be unable to think up the proper words for something beforehand, she'd put it off until she felt she WAS properly prepared. It's kind of the way she's lived her entire life. (unlike Shizune's tendency to blindly charge ahead and deal with things as they come) That and some ordinary selfishness of wanting to enjoy their relationship for as long as possible. The final factor was simply Lilly's rationality and feelings being in constant conflict...even after she admitted the summoning to Hisao, she never came across as having her mind made up firmly and really being capable of strongly defending her decision.

I do think Lilly was secretly hoping Hisao'd try to talk her out of it, but that didn't happen. This is kind of a telling sign of the subtle inequity in the relationship between Hisao and Lilly even after they started dating. Lilly has the tendency to act as a motherly figure towards those she cares about and from the very beginning Hisao uses her confident and nurturing nature as a crutch that he doesn't completely let go of until the very end. Throughout the arc, Lilly's the one who initiates the confession, the sex and the dates. Hisao's relationship with her is a more subtle reversal of his relationship with Hanako in her arc. So when she's forced to admit she'll be leaving Japan, Hisao resents her decision, but "like a good son" doesn't question it. Like it's not his place to argue with her. I don't think Lilly is completely aware of her tendency to develop that kind of relationships with people; notice how Lilly feels her and Hanako's friendship is normally give-and-take while Hanako secretly feels Lilly acts more as a mother than as a friend to her. So when Hisao didn't challenge Lilly's decision to depart, she secretly felt that as a confirmation that leaving was the right choice.

In Lilly's good end, Hisao finally realizes this aspect of their relationship and as a first step to breaking out of it, rushes after her to the airport.

So for short...Lilly's confession was a result of an emotional outburst that defied rationality and yes, her failure to tell Hisao about the summons despite her own appreciation for honesty was blatant hypocricy. But I think that was the point...Lilly's not perfect, she does make mistakes and yet due to the nature of their relationship Hisao failed to call her on it. Keeping Hisao honest throughout the arc isn't just instrumental in impressing Lilly, but it also gives him the introspection he needs at the end to understand where things went wrong and what he's supposed to do to salvage things and continue his relationship with Lilly on more equal footing.

Couldn't have explained it any better if I had written her arc myself. Thanks for that, and I believe that this discussion is pretty much over. Mod lock please?

Come to think of it, I sometimes wonder if Lilly was specifically tailored to give players similar reaction to Hisao, seeing the number of "OMG Lilly's the perfect woman"-posts on the internet and reach a reverse-Hanako effect on purpose.

Hanako's character is kinda designed to give the player a "let me take care of you"-vibe that arouses people's protective instincts and makes them think she's more broken and dependant than she really is. Hisao not breaking that pattern leads to a bad end. Lifting Hanako up from the status of a broken child to a normal human being and seeking equality results in the good end.

Lilly's character seems kinda designed to give the player a "take care of me"-vibe that makes people look up to her and make them think she's more perfect than she really is. Hisao not breaking that pattern leads to a bad end. Bringing Lilly down from the status of a saint (complete with crucifix) to a normal human being and seeking equality results in the good end.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it.