Katawa Shoujo Forums

Duo2Cuo wrote:I think you bring up a great point. My understanding that the difference between "Porn" and something that could actually be beneficial to the advancement of the story is not What is in the scene, but why it was included. An H-scene that was included with the mindset of "Yeah, naked women!" will probably end up seeming out of place or unnecessary while one that was created with the fact that sex is a natural part of a relationship in mind, would have less of a chance of ending up somewhere in left field. (That was a long fucking sentence.)

May be a long sentence, but I think you pretty much summed up what I think about it.

Aura wrote:Talking about the differences between "porn" scenes and something more "sentimental" or "touching" is all well and good, but where does that difference come into play?

Sheesh, ask a question that will get a different answer from every person with functional gonads.
The difference is in when the story touches that part of my brain that goes, "Awwww!" and not the part that thats hollering, "Yeah Booooy! Seeeex! Yeeeeehaw!". The part that hollering is the much larger taget, so you guys did well to hit such a small group of neurons in my brain.

I'm interested in how they're going to.... you know?

Will Emi keep her prosthetic legs on?

Will Hanako still hide her face?

Will you have another heart attack?

Aura wrote:The discussion around the H scenes warrants the question: What makes a good H scene in a visual novel?
Are there examples of well done H scenes?

Talking about the differences between "porn" scenes and something more "sentimental" or "touching" is all well and good, but where does that difference come into play?

Let me answer your first question with two rhetorical questions. To what audience are you catering the H scenes? What about the characters in these scenes?

It depends on what scenario you want to depict, adults satisfying their desires, rape, first love and first sex (et cetera). For something like KS which falls into the last category it is essential to show tranquility and trust between the characters and these two things are necesary fo them to deal with the rather unpleasant sides of intercourse (at the beginning at least).
A good H scene stays true to the characters and does not turn them into your regular porn star with all his endurance, experience and so on. Through that the player/gamer(?) is able to feel the appreciation the author has for the characters and for the story as a whole.

I know examples of very well done H scenes in fiction but Visual novels are altogether different. Maybe the good endings of Kyoko Ashihara, Yuka Otowa and (probably) Kaori Shito from Crescendo would apply, although Crescendo and Katawa Shoujo have a different dramatical level due to the fact that Crescendo plays over a span of 5 days.


To the last question I have to respond by saying that it really a question what you authors want but since I can not read anyone's mind. I can only guess it has to do with the kind of appreciation and love you want to generate. Do you want true empathy with the characters in your visual novel? Do you want to show us a glimpse of what human beings you have sculpted in your minds for almost over two years now?
In your place and with your skills I would feel compelled by my writer's pride to craft something like that. In the end all is entertainment - yes. But there a different approaches to entertainment. Who knows - maybe you'll write something that will not quench the thirst of my carnal desires but will elate me and make me tranquil by reading it. In the end that could be more lasting and more worthy of your works and efforts that have been flowing into this project from everybody.

Aura wrote:The discussion around the H scenes warrants the question: What makes a good H scene in a visual novel? Are there examples of well done H scenes?

Talking about the differences between "porn" scenes and something more "sentimental" or "touching" is all well and good, but where does that difference come into play?

I mostly agree with Duo2Cuo, but gotta add my two cents (again) too.

I know I say this a lot, but it still counts: the difference comes into play when we care about the characters. I've been to h-game sites, I've read reviews, and it's always more about the girls measurements and what they like to do during sex than who they are and all that. KS gives a really different kind of situation than most h-games, so we get to know the girls before sex is even brought up, so it's always going to be more about who they are. learning sign language and really getting to know Shizune will lead to the (eventual) sex being more meaningful than her and Misha tying you down in the student council room.

not that I'd mind that. but not on the first day at the new school.

also (and this is a big point), Hisao's got actual character too, and that's important. he doesn't feel like some random dude with hair hanging over his face who might as well have a sign hanging over him saying "I have no real personality so you can better project yourself onto me, Mr. Player!"

this is part of why I think of KS as a VN, not an h-game. it's like reading a book or watching a movie where I care about the characters and want to see if they'll work out together. it's not just wanting to see who fucks who and how.

sorry for teh rambling. I should only write stuff post-coffee, not during-coffee.

Mercutio wrote:yeah, the sex scenes are gonna be important, but they're important 'cause of the characters and the story, not just 'cause I want to see people fuck. and I'd totally play this if the devs had said from the beginning that there'd be no sex at all.

/seconded

Short and straight to the point.

Nothing needs to be added to that.

Brass restoration is a pretty fun visual novel that also focusses on choosing a girl and geting her good/normal/bad ends yet it doesn't have a single H-scene.
Clearly, the scenes will be important in KS because I'm certain none of the path writers would put in a H-scene somewhere unless he is certain it should be there.

perfection is not reached when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away
forgot whose quote that is though.

Mercutio wrote:also (and this is a big point), Hisao's got actual character too, and that's important. he doesn't feel like some random dude with hair hanging over his face who might as well have a sign hanging over him saying "I have no real personality so you can better project yourself onto me, Mr. Player!"

Very true. I think that not using Hisao as a "Silent Protagonist" is also one of the reasons why the story works so well in KS. Not that the Silent Protagonist role doesn't work well with games of other genre's (Half-Life, Dragon Warrior/Quest, Persona, etc.), but I don't think that that role would work very well in a visual novel.

I think the H-scenes are important not just because they'll be an important part of the story or because of the obvious fap material (I'll likely fap to each scene once and then never touch it again), but because it's a chance for each of the writers to really shine... or fail horribly. I stick my penis into her vagina. It feels warm, like a pig in a blanket. She screams my name. I scream her name. She screams my name again.

"TETSUOOOO"

"KANEDAAAA"


So I'm really curious as to how they'll turn out. In particular I want to know if they're going to forego the whole "sex makes babies" thing like most porn does, or if they're going to portray the characters as the stupid, horny, ignorant teenagers that they are. Either way they're going to have to strike a balance between making the scenes feel real and intimate while avoiding unnecessary drama or complications. Though, I'm sure that as they work through the drafts they'll quickly make a decision as to whether or not incorporating a deliberate fear/avoidance of pregnancy will work or not... I mean, certainly some girls will be more willing to let Hisao stick it in than others, with or without a condom, so long as he pulls out. Plus there's tons of stuff they could do without sticking it in.

As long as he pulls out they're fine, right?... Hmm... I'm almost tempted to make a thread about which girl Hisao is most likely to get accidentally pregnant,* but I want to keep the ratio of stupid threads down. *Misha

All the kids in Yamaku are neutered when they are admitted so the pregnancy thing is not a concern.

Unless he fucks an older lady

Reverse Eugenics?
o_O

POST REMOVED BY AUTHOR

Jesse wrote:I'm interested in how they're going to.... you know?

Will you have another heart attack?

Quicktime events.

Aura wrote:All the kids in Yamaku are neutered when they are admitted so the pregnancy thing is not a concern.

Unless he fucks an older lady

You're really enjoying this, ain'tcha?

Aura wrote:All the kids in Yamaku are neutered when they are admitted so the pregnancy thing is not a concern.