Random KS Discussion

[bhtooefr]

That...that last bit there. I don't remember that O.o When does that happen? I are confus...

Hideaki: "What is your school like?"
This kid is like a little reporter, but it makes sense for someone his age to be curious, and this is one question I don't mind.
Hisao: "What's it like? I never really thought about it. It's on top of this mountain, so it feels kind of isolated and lonely up there sometimes, even though that's also why it has a pretty great view. The students there are interesting. Actually, I felt bad at first. You know what kind of school it is, right?"
Hideaki: "Yes."
Hisao: "I felt bad because I didn't want to go there. I don't even remember exactly what I was thinking at the time. Probably it was something like, a school for crippled people would be a depressing place. They were telling me to go be forgotten there. Then, everyone there was just living their lives, for the most part. So I felt even worse. It wasn't different at all, so I felt like kind of a jerk. Shizune was the first person I met. She's in most of my classes. Misha, too, they're always together. I guess the school is accommodating enough to pair them up as much as possible. There's this girl in my class, Hanako, whom I feel bad for. She has these burns, and seems to have a complex about them. But I think she looks fine. She's a cute girl. And friends with Lilly, too. You know Lilly, right? Does she bring up Hanako?"
Hideaki: "Yes, sometimes."
Hisao: "I'm trying to remember who else is interesting. We have a little track star ace who runs on these prosthetics. There's this one girl, Rin, who doesn't have arms, but she's a great painter. All her art has this harsh, alive quality. Have you ever been to Yamaku? You've probably seen some of it hanging around. A little weird sometimes, but I've always heard that artistic and creative types are like that. That reminds me, the guy who lives across the hall from me is pretty weird, too. But he can be interesting, at least."

Stretching a little bit, I know, but it just feels slightly obsessive, almost like he's wanting to pump Hideaki for information about Hanako, I dunno.

As for Hisao cheating on Shizune with Hanako, that's part of the wonderful world of fanfic.

[azumeow]

That...that last bit there. I don't remember that O.o When does that happen? I are confus...

WORDS WORDS WORDS
Stretching a little bit, I know, but it just feels slightly obsessive, almost like he's wanting to pump Hideaki for information about Hanako, I dunno.

As for Hisao cheating on Shizune with Hanako, that's part of the wonderful world of fanfic.

I personally think it's more than stretching just a little. He might simply be wondering if this girl even knows ANYBODY other than Lilly, or if she just goes completely under the radar. That is up to interpretation, though so yeah.

And I loved Enjoy the Silence. LOVED it. Love the song, loved the fic, loved how it went. I just have a thing with necro'ing after a bad experience on one of the first forums I ever joined.

[Khalego]

They're all doomed to fail eventually because the status quo must be preserved.

But probably Lilly wins, if only because Hanako would be far more difficult.

[SpunkySix]

it looks like we fell into Shizune's pit of "She has such deep meaning" again.

Ugh... thanks, but... ugh.

Listen, I get that Shizune's route is all deep and intellectual and that anybody who doesn't like it is an uneducated dunce, but that doesn't make it particularly entertaining and it doesn't suddenly mean that her relationship with Hisao is especially strong. Really, her route from what I've heard seems to imply pretty strongly that after Yamaku, Hisao and Shizune stop dating and go their separate ways willingly. I don't think any of the other routes do that. So in the end, they're the most likely to "fail" if we define failure as not staying together.

[Broomhead]

imply pretty strongly that after Yamaku, Hisao and Shizune stop dating and go their separate ways willingly.

That's not true in Shizune Good End. Short Summary: The screw in the student council room, rather vigorously, talk for a bit about how she wants to become rich and then go into philanthropy. Hisao then thinks about what he'll do. Most likely he'll stick with shicchan though throughout uni/career happenings. Now, that is directly stated. What this actually means is that Shizune route Hisao thought about it, and decided to go through with it. Nothing about his success. And in most other routes it isn't mentioned, so that doesn't mean he doesn't think of it or decide to do it. In fact, if you want to get really uppity, I would say the fact he feels the need to go to uni with her means he may not think it would work otherwise, which is a sign of things. Not bad things, just things.

[Liminaut]

The master of all five waifus?

One Sweater Vest to rule them all,
One Sweater Vest to find them,
One Sweater Vest to bring them all,
And in Yamaku to bind them.

[azumeow]

The master of all five waifus?

One Sweater Vest to rule them all,
One Sweater Vest to find them,
One Sweater Vest to bring them all,
And in Yamaku to bind them.

"You'd think that, without the sleeves, it would be less of a sweater, but it is actually MORE!"

[Liminaut]

off above topic, i was just wondering and i'm pretty sure this was already discuseed but maybe someone can tell me as well, wouldn't a heart transplant fix hisao's problems?

Transplants come with their own set of major problems. For instance, you've got someone else's heart in you, which isn't from your body, which means that it's going to set off your immune system like Macy's Christmas tree. Which means Hisao is going to swap a lifetime of heart meds for a lifetime of immunosuppressant meds.

[Broomhead]

If only I had photoshop... Shizune and Misha as Sauron and Saruman, Lilly as Galadriel, Hanako as... pissed Galadriel/Legolass. Emi/Rin as Pippin and Merry.

[Liminaut]

In terms of who is likely to stay together with Hisao, the strong consensus of this poll http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9647 was Lilly, with Shizune doing pretty badly.

I must say, I was a little surprised when that threat didn't detonate into waifu wars.

In terms of who is likely to stay together in terms of friendships:

Shizune/Misha: In the Shizune route, I think Misha is going to get far, far away from Shizune. I think Misha mentions that she is going to study in a foreign country. In the unrequited loves I've been a part of, I've had to simply get the person out of my life once I realized it wasn't going to work. Outside of the Shizune route I think there is a good chance for the two to remain friends for a while. I believe in Rin's route they mention they are going to Scotland together. This may not be a good thing for Misha.

Emi/Rin: They are both defined by their drive and determination, and if that pulls them apart it pulls them apart. Rin especially -- she is going to focus on art and may not take the time to maintain friendships. I could see them having wonderfull occasional get-togethers, but not a lasting friendship.

Hanako/Lilly: In Lilly's good route, where she comes back, I could see Lilly and Hanako maintaining a friendship, although if Lilly continues to patronize Hanako it could get difficult. I've just realized: Lilly invited Hisao out to the cottage to bang him like a Chinese gong (after all, she had gone to the trouble of making sure she was on contraceptives first, so it was pretty well planned) and then she invites Hanako along ... so Hanako can listen from the next room. Creepy, really creepy. In the bad end, or other ends: as near as I can tell, Lilly told Hanako about going to Scotland the night before, or maybe even *that day*. If I was Hanako, I'd be so made I'd want to punch walls and I would strongly be considering if Lilly was my friend or not.

Now, on to unjustified headcanon: In Emi's path it's clear that Emi and Misha are good friends, and apocryphal that Emi and Misha were friends with benefits. On the other hand, I can easily see Hanako wanting to get out of Japan and into someplace more accepting of somebody as disfigured as she is. So, the unjustified headcanon is Hanako, Misha, and Emi wind up in a house together in California.

[bhtooefr]

Emi's mastery of English is canonically fucking terrible.

[SpunkySix]

Emi's mastery of English is canonically fucking terrible.

I'm pretty sure she's implied to be kind of book dumb, actually.

If she keeps nagging Hisao about cake, then he better do his part and nag her about studying.

[Atario]

If allegiances were religious sects surrounding KS goddesses, you'd have:

Shizmatics
Mishanaries
Eminences
Rinunciators
Satounists (two kinds)
Hanabaptists

You are a clever man when it comes to wordplay, I've observed. A kudos to you. However, there should not be two kinds of Satounists, but Satounists and Setounists, and they coolly tolerate one another while making snide remarks involving Es and As behind the others' backs.

It kind of bums me out how weak Emi and Rin's friendship is in the end. I didn't realize that until I did Rin's route.

Probably shouldn't be surprising, given their difficulties with things that make close friendships last. Still, it wouldn't be beyond reason for them to become a sort of a default nonromantic couple, especially if they'd been together all three years at Yamaku. Plus, they do seem rather interested in one another's "professional" exploits — the whole "we both chase extremes" thing. That alone could be cause for a miniature mutual admiration society in the long term.

off above topic, i was just wondering and i'm pretty sure this was already discuseed but maybe someone can tell me as well, wouldn't a heart transplant fix hisao's problems?

Given that they're difficult, rare, and often fail, I'd say probably not.

before I finished, I guessed neutral end was that Hisao had a heart attack and Lilly gave him her heart, metaphorically and literally

So… she just decides to die to do this, and the doctors just go along with it?? You are a curious specimen, my friend…

Even so, childhood friends can and may disappear one day if they move to another country. After that, keeping in touch is just hard.

Not nearly as hard now as back when I graduated. Still, the harder problem is that people change, especially while still young. My best friend in high school went off to college, as did I, and when next we met, he seemed a much different person whom I wasn't sure I liked anymore.

'love' is a strong word and I don't use it often--no, I never dare to use it unless it really holds weight. From today's perspective, the attraction of two individuals towards one another can immediately be describe as 'love'; to me, that is not love, but simple attractions. The 'weight' of the meaning of 'love' is--apparently--lost with the modern age, and people these days just tosses them around for free like candy. These days, you can be in a relationship but not in love and yet you can declare it as 'love' (which is why I state earlier how the meaning of 'love' is lost). Does having a lot of sex with your partner equals love? I don't think so.

You keep saying "these days" like any of this is anything new. It's not. People lightly tossing around weighty words or not is entirely based on who they are, not the times they live in. My feeling is that none of the characters in our favorite Visual Novel are the kind to be flip about it. Having said that, I risk rustling a few jimmies of my own by pointing out that Shizune is in fact the only love interest in the game who never does explicitly profess any feelings of romantic love for Hisao.

Love isn't just about hugging, kissing, and spouting 'I love you I love you I love you' over and over again.

Subtle

[Hanako] doesn't want to be protected/babied

Correction: she doesn't want to be only protected/babied. There's nothing wrong with doting on or being protective of your loved ones, and she's fully aware of that. But for that to be all one is to one's loved ones is to be treated as less than a complete person, and that's what she doesn't want.

she's just lacking self-esteem and confidence

Let's not sugarcoat it. She does have problems. Real, difficult ones. Lack of self-esteem and confidence are only one facet of it. I mean, those things aren't what cause a person to have an anxiety attack at the mention of a birthday.

In Lilly's route, Hanako 'left' her shell on her own accord and joined the newspaper club--a sign that shows that she is capable of independence, partly also due to the fact since her usual friend is busy with Hisao and does not 'baby' her as much as she would to. Thus, even without Hisao's company, Hanako is capable in her own right to step out of her shell as long as she sees fit.

Many would say it was Hanako specifically going out of her way to give Lilly and Hisao space that led her to do this. So, without Hisao in their lives, Hanako might not have done that.

But none of this addresses the original question of how lasting the relationship between Hisao and Hanako (on the Hanako good ending) is. You seem to feel Hisao is nothing more than a decoration in the hair of a Strong Hanako That Don't Need No Man. But her actions put the lie to how little you think she'd changed, and to how little you think she feels for him. She goes to pretty great lengths — particularly for a person like her — to "prove herself" or "make herself seem worthy" in his eyes. And when she finally breaks down in the park, and all the truth comes out, and Hisao finally confesses his love for her, she responds that that's all she ever wanted to hear. These are not the actions of someone who will discard him at the next convenient opportunity.

Plus, don't forget, it's an explicit characterization for Hanako that she has few friends, but deeply treasures those she does have. I can't imagine this would be anything less than greatly amplified when it comes to a lover.

note Lilly's story and the conflict she's facing. She's supposed to answer to her parents in Scotland, to which she--again--dodged and sent Akira instead to explain.

I don't know where you're getting that from. We really have no clue what she did or did not say to her parents about the whole thing, directly or indirectly.

She might 'solved' her relationship issue with Hisao, but she's far from solving her own personal issue with her family--that will comeback and haunt her, I guarantee it.

You say that like it's not the case that just about everyone in the world has family issues that impede their romantic relationships in one way or another.

Even if she refuses to return to Scotland and confront her problems

Why should traveling to Scotland be a prerequisite for confronting anything?

one way or another she will have to meet her parents as-per request

Why, will she turn into a pumpkin if she doesn't?

I'll bet her parents will go to Japan and drag her to confront them instead.
Now imagine you're Lilly's parents, arrived in Japan to settle a problem with your blind daughter only to find that she decides to stay in Japan because she's in a relationship with a boy that you don't even know exist, you think you'll approve that? Be honest--I know I won't.

Why does she need their approval? She's a big girl and can make her own decisions. (Which is the big thing she has to learn in her route, actually.)

I think he's saying that all the girls relationships except Shizunes are doomed to eventual failure.

As a programmer, I believe I can simplify the assertion and generalize for most cases.

Code: Select all

All girls except $MY_FAVORITE are lame and loved only by losers.

Note: will throw errors for EveryGirlIsBestGirl proponents like me.

I tend to fall back on the general principle that each good ending represents the start of some sort of stable long term relationship.

We can also employ a simple appeal to authority and point out that the devs have said every good ending is an "and they lived happily ever after" situation.

So for me, each girl gets her happy ending ... right up until the catgirl apocalypse.

At which point Shizune will have an advantage due to her hair-scoops/cat-ears, possibly transforming into Shizuneko.

Hisao then thinks about what he'll do. Most likely he'll stick with shicchan though throughout uni/career happenings. Now, that is directly stated. What this actually means is that Shizune route Hisao thought about it, and decided to go through with it.

Unfortunately, all this seems dispelled by some statements in the ending scene. Shizune's "I feel like we'll meet again." doesn't exactly scream commitment, and let's meet again sooner than a reunion puts the timeline pretty far out. Plus, Hisao's final thought, "We'll meet again." almost seems like he's trying to convince himself that they'll ever see one another again at all, much less stay in a romantic relationship. I'm not saying that's the way it is, but you can certainly see where the feeling comes from.

And in Yamaku to bind them.

Hey, no S&M. The kids are still awake.

[Khalego]

Emi's mastery of English is canonically fucking terrible.

I'm pretty sure she's implied to be kind of book dumb, actually.

If she keeps nagging Hisao about cake, then he better do his part and nag her about studying.

"You best read that whole chapter OR I SWEAR ON ME MUM, I'M EATING THIS FRIED TWINKIE!"

(How great are fried Twinkies? The answer is "very".)

[Oddball]

At which point Shizune will have an advantage due to her hair-scoops/cat-ears, possibly transforming into Shizuneko.

However at that point, she'll be too bust playing with a ball of string to care about Hisao.

shizune the cat (2).png (95.22 KiB) Viewed 3824 times