Katawa Shoujo Forums

If we're going to say "Well there is no reason Hisao can't do X at a later point is Y route" then there isn't much discussion to be had. Anything he learns in one route could later be learned in another route (potentially), we don't know, so that kind of comment seems a bit hollow to me. Sure he could exercise more in a non-Emi route but from what we've seen he doesn't, even in routes where he is having significant health problems like Lilly's, Emi is really what pushes him/inspires him to do it and while he might pick up some form of exercise in other routes will they ever be the same as Emi's? I doubt it, neither Hisao nor any of the other girls are like that. Shizune might order him to after a heart attack but will he do anything but grumble/submit and do it half heartedly? Depends on how she handles him but that's just it we don't know.

Regarding Emi & Hanako, Hisao is forced into questioning them about their personal baggage simply due to their natures/problems. Emi eventually hits him with a "We'll never become closer because I won't allow it" and Hisao has no recourse other then pushing for more to get through. Likewise if Hisao had "let Hanako be" he'd have gotten the Neutral Ending where they never progress beyond being friends who play chess. Perhaps these events are a bit sudden/happen in too short a time frame but they are still something he'd have to do eventually he couldn't just let them go. And they do talk about other things, books and such, but the small talk isn't a focus of the route...

Regarding Lilly, the talk couldn't have happened over the phone because A) she'd already be gone and the distance would have just put the final block between them, B) his "death sprint" was kinda a big deal, showing just how much he cared and needed her, words over the phone wouldn't have the same effect no matter how passionate (and if we know anything about Hisao, talking isn't his strong suite). As for if it's a good thing or not that she stayed... I personally think she was going home more out of obligation then desire. Her family had abandoned her for six years, it's hinted that it was because of her blindness, and we aren't given much to indicate they made up all that much on her previous trip. Hisao's desperation and care gave her the excuse/motivation to do what she wanted not what she was obligated to. At least that's how I read it.

About Hisao's future, in Emi's path Hisao has just as much drive and direction as he does in Shizune's if not more, he talks to Mutou alot early on when in Shizun's route he only decides at the end (plus the Science Club and earlier decision then in Shizune's route should definatly put him in a better position for it). And of course in Lilly's route it's set in stone, much more so then at the end of Shizune's.

Murkglow wrote:If we're going to say "Well there is no reason Hisao can't do X at a later point is Y route" then there isn't much discussion to be had. Anything he learns in one route could later be learned in another route (potentially), we don't know, so that kind of comment seems a bit hollow to me. Sure he could exercise more in a non-Emi route but from what we've seen he doesn't, even in routes where he is having significant health problems like Lilly's, Emi is really what pushes him/inspires him to do it and while he might pick up some form of exercise in other routes will they ever be the same as Emi's? I doubt it, neither Hisao nor any of the other girls are like that. Shizune might order him to after a heart attack but will he do anything but grumble/submit and do it half heartedly? Depends on how she handles him but that's just it we don't know.

I forget which route it's in, but in one route he ends up talking to the nurse again and says that he's started walking alot. The Nurse tells him this is a perfectly fine exercise for his condition.

About Hisao's future, in Emi's path Hisao has just as much drive and direction as he does in Shizune's if not more, he talks to Mutou alot early on when in Shizun's route he only decides at the end (plus the Science Club and earlier decision then in Shizune's route should definatly put him in a better position for it). And of course in Lilly's route it's set in stone, much more so then at the end of Shizune's.

His future is pretty set in stone by the end of Kenji's route as well.

Oddball wrote: His future is pretty set in stone by the end of Kenji's route as well.

More like splattered all over the stone than set in it.

Mirrormn wrote:

Oddball wrote: His future is pretty set in stone by the end of Kenji's route as well.

More like splattered all over the stone than set in it.

Well, someone had to set his stone later somewhere.

Mysterious Stranger wrote: I'd completely agree that Emi's arc is the fluffiest of them all, but I never felt jarred when it transitioned from the lightheartedness to the serious feels, simply because I think it was very adequately foreshadowed. As early as Track Meeting you're clued into the fact that something's wrong.

It's not really that jarring--well, maybe it is but it's just how she played the entire relationship (add Hisao's whimpy attitude he has when he first entered Yamaku). True, you can see the foreshadowing in the track meet (with her mom, the nurse, her way of hiding things). If I'm playing as the "dumb-ass roommate next door" to Emi's room (no, not Rin. Say there's someone else), I'd start believing that Hisao is Emi's personal vibrator considering how "rough" she starts it--you have to admit she is damn aggressive--followed closely with Lilly.

Have you noticed? The only two arcs where the girl confesses first before Hisao did is in Emi and Lilly's route. In Shizune's, Hisao decided to confess to her first during the tanabata festival (which is sweet since according to Japanese culture and customs, the Tanabata festival celebrates the time when two lovers--Hikoboshi-sama and Orihime-sama who were separated by distance (or the milky way?) were reunited. Romantically, it symbolizes everlasting love; yeah, it's a festival especially dedicated for couples). In Hanako's route, although both confessed at the end, it was Hisao who made the first move to tell her that he has been in love with her. In Rin's route, it just "happen" naturally at the end, but it was spearheaded by Hisao's attempt to communicate with Rin.

Interesting, huh? Worth looking into.

Murkglow wrote: Is he really that much better at the end of Shizune's then he was at the end of Emi's or Lilly's? In all three he knows what path he wants to take in life (Science Teacher) and depending on how you define "best" each path has something to offer. Emi's Hisao will probably live the longest, fullest life, not just because of the exercise but he seems to take to heart the message "Don't give up on yourself". He also spends alot more time with Mutou in the Science Club which probably helps his future a fair bit. Lilly's Hisao has really learned to appreciate what he has especially after the second hospital stay and he easily has the most solid relationship/partner moving forward (along with one who will help/support his goals in life seeing as she also wants to be a teacher and they are going through it together).

Hanako and Rin's paths don't compare in the same way but to be fair both end well before Shizune's (in timeline) so Hisao doesn't have nearly as long to "grow" (though he still does). After all Hanako's path is almost entirely about Hisao realizing how he effects/treats others, specifically Hanako (for good or bad) while Rin's Hisao has gone through the most trying experiences of the lot and learned to accept that he can't have things just as he wants them (which is an important lesson).

You made some good points here, and I can agree to some but not all.
I'll skip the 'spoiler' tag since this board starts to look like a CIA operative's folder concerning "operation 'katawa' and 'best route"

Anyway

All route taught Hisao valuable life lessons, that's true. Arguing about "Hisao will do 'x' in a later timeline after the credits roll" is--as stated before--meaningless since it heavily relies on probability and chances; that isn't much to look at and can't be relied on.

Hisao's character cannot be analyzed in a single-route alone and it takes all of him in all that different and alternative timeline before we can finally see who Hisao really is. How come his heart seems to be a lot more weaker in Lilly's route than in Shizune's, Emi's, Hanako's, or Rin's (he has up to four to five heart attacks with ACT I's "meet cute" included in Lilly's)? How come he's all "kind, caring and somewhat-understanding" in Shizune and Hanako's route (considering good endings) and act like a total jackass in Emi's and Rin's? There's a lot more to look into his character.

...but why the hell are we looking into him anyway? Kenji's a lot more interesting to look into considering his psyche.

But ending considered...

Concerning "being more healthy in Emi's route"
That can be true, but--as what had been said before that "walking is a good exercise" in one of the girl's route (I'm guessing it's either Rin or Shizune's), as long as Hisao doesn't spend 30 hours of his life daily (that's 5hrs plus) in this board proclaiming that he is the 'Master of Romance' or playing CoD 20 hours a day (that's another 20 hours from the 30 hours) while screaming into a microphone about 'this and that', he'll have a happy long and healthy life. He'll be fine, it's not like missing runs is going to kill him or cut his life shorter.

Besides, him being in the track team doesn't stop him from taking his daily dose of death-be-gone medicine he kept beside his bed. The Nurse just wants him to be healthy so he can have an easy and happy long life ahead of him (every nurse will say this to you). Him being in the track team and running does made him capable of running long distances and it does keep him healthy.

But so does walking. As long as he doesn't stay in his seat most of the time and just take a walk outside (or exercise) once in awhile (and not overexert himself), he'll have the same effect as he does in the track team--the added bonus in Emi's route is just him being able to run further and faster. If Hisao have to run to be healthy, then he'll be experiencing 10 different heart attacks in the other girl's route besides Emi's.

What kept him alive, I think, is his death-be-gone medicine (I forgot the name). You remove that in Emi's path, and he'll fall like a wall of cardboard against wind just like him in any other route.

Murkglow wrote:Regarding Emi & Hanako, Hisao is forced into questioning them about their personal baggage simply due to their natures/problems. Emi eventually hits him with a "We'll never become closer because I won't allow it" and Hisao has no recourse other then pushing for more to get through. Likewise if Hisao had "let Hanako be" he'd have gotten the Neutral Ending where they never progress beyond being friends who play chess. Perhaps these events are a bit sudden/happen in too short a time frame but they are still something he'd have to do eventually he couldn't just let them go. And they do talk about other things, books and such, but the small talk isn't a focus of the route...

Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this.

Not true on Emi's route. Are you suggesting that he has absolutely no resources of Emi's problem in her route? Hisao had a lot of resources--starting with the closest person who knew her personally, Meiko Ibarazaki (Emi's mom). Then there's the Nurse who also knew Emi for a very-very long time (NOTE: Am I the only one who thinks that there is something going on between the Nurse and Emi's mom?). And then again, there's her constant diversion she use to keep Hisao away from her problems, that gave a way substantial amount of hints to Hisao about Emi's facade. If you're the boyfriend (or close friend) of "x" girl, and you can tell she's having problems, you'd be inclined to ask and comfort her--especially if you're interested in her even if you barely knew her for say one-two months.

Now story morals considered...
I do agree that in Emi's route that the most valuable lesson he learned is to never give up on something after you hit a dead-end (Emi's "second-chance" ending is a good example of this--her good ending is good too). ALTHOUGH, it can also be interpreted that in Emi's route, Hisao learns how 'patience and trust will carry you a long way'

What I think he did learn in Hanako's route is the need for him to reflect upon himself before deciding to help others/judging others based on the cover.

Murkglow wrote:Regarding Lilly, the talk couldn't have happened over the phone because
A) she'd already be gone and the distance would have just put the final block between them,
B) his "death sprint" was kinda a big deal, showing just how much he cared and needed her, words over the phone wouldn't have the same effect no matter how passionate (and if we know anything about Hisao, talking isn't his strong suite). As for if it's a good thing or not that she stayed... I personally think she was going home more out of obligation then desire. Her family had abandoned her for six years, it's hinted that it was because of her blindness, and we aren't given much to indicate they made up all that much on her previous trip. Hisao's desperation and care gave her the excuse/motivation to do what she wanted not what she was obligated to. At least that's how I read it.

it also taught him how to blow your bank account in a single night.

What irked me about Lilly's ending--though romantic--is how unrealistic it was. In Shizune's arc, in order to get to her house from Yamaku they are required to take a bullet train (or was the bullet train in Lilly's route?)--that's a significant distance mentioned. Now, taxi ride from Yamaku to the airport is reasonable.

But following this route:
Yamaku--->Shizune's house--->Airport

You really have to question how much he spent, or if it is even possible in one night before the flight leaves. Say that a taxi ride from Seattle-Tacoma international Airport to one of the small towns in Washington state takes about $50--and that takes about one hour-to one hour thirty or so, reasonable distance. Now say that Shizune's house is somewhere south in Portland, that takes about two to three hours, less if a bullet train is operating in the US. Now take a taxi from one of that small town, head to Portland, then head to the airport--how much will that cost? I'm guessing his parents will wring his neck after they learn how much he spent that night--probably cut his allowance for the next few months too.

But anyway, we're not discussing about Hisao's bank account; though, it can be humorous.

Now, back to Lilly. You mentioned how it is more of an obligation than a desire--I believe that is true, and I agree with it. You mentioned how the death sprint is significant and shows how much he cared for her--that is also true, and I believe so. But you mentioning that it gave her an excuse/motivation to do what she wanted? That is plausible and--as much as we've been through this again and again--it almost sounds like Lilly's 'procrastinating' to solve her problems with her family and has now find a good reason to delay it even more. Huh, that's a thought...

But anyway, sometimes considering how unrealistic the taxi ride and how dream-like Lilly's ending is, I can't help thinking that it could actually somehow ends up like the movie 'Inception'. You know, "it is all a dream" (or left to the audience's interpretation).
The truth being that Hisao died in his sprint (or in the hospital), dreamed that Lilly returned, and the two of them live happily ever after as they face towards the setting sun. It was all a dream in Hisao's last, dying moment after his reckless attempt to chase her through the airport.

...oh, the Lilly and Akira he saw in the airport were his hallucination as his heart gives away.
...
...
interesting thought, right?

Murkglow wrote:About Hisao's future, in Emi's path Hisao has just as much drive and direction as he does in Shizune's if not more, he talks to Mutou alot early on when in Shizun's route he only decides at the end (plus the Science Club and earlier decision then in Shizune's route should definatly put him in a better position for it). And of course in Lilly's route it's set in stone, much more so then at the end of Shizune's.

This isn't easy to determine because:
1) We don't know much about Hisao, or not many people here are interested in uncovering his personality or character that can fully reflect him--I am one of those. F**k the main character, The five girls are a lot more interesting to peel--even Kenji wins over him.
2) Life is full of surprises. Next thing you know, Hisao joins the JSDF and heads to North Korea because some bum in the street spews patriotic words that made him think that joining the army is a good idea.

The story between Hisao and 'x' girl ends where it 'ends'. We don't know what might happen next (unless the dev releases an 'expansion pack/patch' or an official single-route continuation [like 'Tomoyo After' by KEY]) since life is full of surprises. Hisao and Emi might break up later, or Hisao and Hanako somehow started a bakery, or him and Lilly decided that ruling over Japan as a couple is a good idea, or Hisao and Rin decided to paint a masterpiece with their blood, or him and Shizune decided to start an empire--we will never know. It's Hisao's choices, and we're just there to 'butt in' and help guide him so he doesn't step on a turd-covered landmine due to his stupidity.

But jokes aside, let's try to tackle this.
In Emi's route: he talks to Mutou early on, or did Mutou talk to him first?
Hisao may have interest in science, but the person who saw his potential is Mutou--if I remember correctly, Mutou talks to him first and convinces him to take teaching or Science! as a career goal. Now, I'm just a part-time tutor, but from my own experience it is the passion and motivation that drives you to be a teacher in the first place (trust me, dealing with students can get pretty stressful)--something that he learned he enjoys to do in Shizune's route.

Now about 'Hisao maturing a lot more in Shizune's route than the rest'.
In Rin's route, what I can assume Hisao learned from the entire ordeal is how 'to accept everyone the way they are' or something like that. In Hanako's route I assume that he learn how to 'reflect upon himself before judging others', while in Emi it's 'patience and trust carries you to great distances'. In Lilly's, I'm guessing it's 'never to give up something that you held precious'--unless you think like what I'm thinking about the ending, then yeah his route is "set in stone"--his tombstone

In Shizune's route, however--consider the possible bias please--Hisao realized all of this himself at the end of the route. 'Patience and trust carries you to great distances'? Check--The issue with Misha and Shizune, their relationship, and Hisao's part in all this. Him trusting and patiently wait for Shizune to find the solution to the problem instead of directly take it into his hand and comfort her. 'Accept people the way they are'? Check--Shizune's good ending, Hisao saying 'I love you' (the only 'I LOVE YOU' said in her route--that's weight, man) to Shizune in the end of her route can be interpreted to him accepting Shizune as the way she is--'though flawed, she is the love of my life'. 'Reflect upon yourself before judging others'? Check--Shizune good ending. In the bad ending, he blatantly concludes that 'you are selfish' to Shizune--but is it really her (due to her disability which prevents her to relate to others), or is it Hisao who wishes that everything will just work out fine/normally after what he had done to Misha before? This is open to interpretation, of course.'Never give up something that you held precious'? Check--This is reflected in Shizune herself, which is a 'transferable' life-lesson to Hisao. The Student Council IMO is an allusion to the relationship of Misha, Shizune, and Hisao--they knew they're going to part after graduation, but as Student Councils continues to exist despite the change in leadership, so will their ties/bonds with one another. Shizune refused to give up on Misha (which--in the bad ending--costs her Hisao and her self-esteem), but she prevailed in the good ending. In short, their friendship/bond together--allusion by the Student Council--is something all three of them held precious together.

This is what I feel when reading her route, and that's why I feel Hisao matured much more significantly in Shizune's route than in the others.
Again, all these are open to interpretation.
and with this I declare that Shizune's route is canon

Aaaaaaaaa Wall of Text!

Megumeru wrote:Concerning "being more healthy in Emi's route"
That can be true, but--as what had been said before that "walking is a good exercise" in one of the girl's route (I'm guessing it's either Rin or Shizune's), as long as Hisao doesn't spend 30 hours of his life daily (that's 5hrs plus) in this board proclaiming that he is the 'Master of Romance' or playing CoD 20 hours a day (that's another 20 hours from the 30 hours) while screaming into a microphone about 'this and that', he'll have a happy long and healthy life. He'll be fine, it's not like missing runs is going to kill him or cut his life shorter.

I don't know. Lilly's route shows us that whatever exercise he was getting during her route wasn't good enough (and he probably was shown walking more in that one then most others given all the time spent going to town). Hanako's ends before the point were Hisao really starts having health trouble in Lilly's so hers doesn't show us much. From what I remember he doesn't have the same problems in Rin or Shizune's but then he also doesn't have alot of physical exertion (at least I don't remember alot of physical stuff in theirs, aside from building stalls and the like) so it's hard to say just how good his health is in those.

Megumeru wrote:Besides, him being in the track team doesn't stop him from taking his daily dose of death-be-gone medicine he kept beside his bed.

Of course not but nothing will, that still doesn't change the fact that he is noted as being significantly better health wise in Emi's then any other (He "death sprints" after Emi in one path to the good end of her route too, not quite as much as in Lilly's probably, and he doesn't have a heart attack doing it).

Megumeru wrote:Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this.

By no recourse I meant no other option. He was forced to confront Emi about her problems not just let them go or let her have her way. He did have resources into understanding her problem but neither was strictly necessary (you can get the good end without talking to Nurse or her mother) and neither really tell him anything beyond "Emi is stubborn and her father's death was tramatic for her. Don't give up." which frankly was obvious (though Hisao is pretty dense...).

Megumeru wrote:Now, back to Lilly. You mentioned how it is more of an obligation than a desire--I believe that is true, and I agree with it. You mentioned how the death sprint is significant and shows how much he cared for her--that is also true, and I believe so. But you mentioning that it gave her an excuse/motivation to do what she wanted? That is plausible and--as much as we've been through this again and again--it almost sounds like Lilly's 'procrastinating' to solve her problems with her family and has now find a good reason to delay it even more. Huh, that's a thought...

If she even wants to "solve her family problems." They did after all abandon her for six years (at only 12 years old) and it wasn't like they were putting forth effort into trying to "solve" the problem either... And then there is the question of if going to Scotland even would have solved anything. Maybe she would have simply been left to live alone somewhere and was simply called back because Akira was and they felt "Might as well call Lilly too. It would be the proper thing to do." Just because she was called back to Scotland doesn't necessarily mean things would have changed in a meaningful way for her. And then there is the idea that Hisao's emotional support and backing might do more to help her in her later dealings with her family (providing her with confidence and such) then if she had gone back immediately alone.

Megumeru wrote:But jokes aside, let's try to tackle this.
In Emi's route: he talks to Mutou early on, or did Mutou talk to him first?

Mutou forms the Science Club but we get direct thoughts from Hisao regarding his interest in Science so I don't think his drive is simply lip service to make Mutou feel better.
As for the "learns all lessons in Shizune's route" text block:

Megumeru wrote:Again, all these are open to interpretation.

This.

There's one thing about Hisao's health in Lilly's route that lots of people miss. It's not even brought up in the game.

Hisao drinks a lot of tea in her route.

Tea is a stimulant containing caffeine. It's not really good for your heart.

Mixing it with alcohol is even worse. Combining a stimulant and a depressant together has to play a bit of havoc with Hisao's system.


Of course Shizune's route suggests they eat a lot of fastfood, so that probably isn't much better.

If Hisao isn't drinking tea in Lilly's route, he's drinking coffee in all the others (when he drinks a hot beverage) which surely isn't any better. Of course he probably drinks more tea then coffee but still... As for the wine, he drinks it what three times total over the course of her entire route? Seems a bit much to place the blame there but then I'm not a doctor. It's hard to say what exactly leads to Hisao's poor health but we do know for sure that Emi's methods help him...

Holy shit, and I thought Mirrormn was the resident KS scholar. I'm not even going to try to quote everything directly...

Murkglow wrote:His health isn't okay

Mergumeru wrote:His health isn't fine

I was trying to extrapolate likelihoods of future exercise based on how Hisao handled various decisions in each arc. It ends up in my head something like Emi>Shizune>Hanako>Lilly>Rin. Based purely on the text, yes, Emi's path is the only one with significant physical activity, and Lilly will be the death of him. One more reason to just let her go. He just seems more responsible in Shizune's text, is all.

Murkglow wrote:Stick to the text!

Mergumeru wrote:Stick to the text!

Actually, I'm going to take a different tack entirely...

Mergumeru wrote:All paths must be used as context for each other

This is more or less what I was attempting. The only reason I began thinking about VNs at all was a Gamasutra article analyzing Fate: Stay/Night's ending structure, so when I found KS I approached it like this.
It's just occurred to me that this approach can be problematic. The devs have admitted to a couple of actual script errors (Shizune and Lilly's family feud), and there are a number of points where the timelines and setting details don't match up (neither of the Scotland trips seem to happen in Emi's route?). The writers coordinated everything the best they could, but obviously they had a lot of room to move between routes. This could obviously be extended towards explaining Hisao's behavior in each arc.

If we use this approach, we can't use the endings of each arc for complete discussion of Hisao as a character. Act 1 is Hisao's true path, the one where everything we know about Hisao is established through the choices we make for him. This is also the most likely point for the writers to coordinate with each other the closest, with how intertwined things are.

As I was reasoning out how to initiate each path (I didn't bother with a walkthrough), I noticed that the majority of the choices boiled down to 'assertive', 'passive', or some variation of 'show interest in Hanako'. Taking all of the 'assertive' options will lead you to Shizune, taking all of the 'passive' options will lead you to Rin, and different combinations lead to either Emi or a really obvious dividing point between Hanako and Lilly. Most of them have a kind of escape hatch choice (race Emi or not, join the Art Club or not...) that can help you get to another path unless you've taken too many of either the passive or assertive choices, at which point it's just you, Kenji, and his whiskey. The timing of all of these choices is also key, but I didn't analyze it that far.

Hisao is not the player. Just want that to be clear. He is unknown to the player at the start, and his personality is largely determined by the choices the player makes in Act 1.

So if Hisao's traits are largely unknown until we decide them and his written voice is consistent until he enters a path proper, we can only conclude that the player decisions effectively change the sort of person he was when he entered Yamaku. For example, there doesn't seem to be a way (for the player to decide) to approach Lilly directly until the festival branch point. This means that the player has to choose options that show interest in Hanako up until they decide that they would rather pursue Lilly, simply because the game gives them no other option. This would establish Hisao as either the kind of guy that would use one girl to get to another (if we assume that he is calculating) or as sharing Lilly's protective instinct. It would be unclear if Hisao underwent any actual change in himself. This protective Hisao would be the Hisao that entered Yamaku, going from the text.

This would mean that the Hisao that enters each path would have a personality reflecting the girl we have chosen to romance.
Emi!Hisao is so completely present in the moment that he does not consider it a bad idea to push well past his limits, and always has been.
Hanako!Hisao is drawn to shelter the weakened and unfortunate, to protect them, for reasons that are unclear even to himself, and always has been.
Rin!Hisao drifts through life as an observer and is drawn to a mystery that he cannot explain, and always has been.
Shizune!Hisao is pulled into the orbit of those he admires, and is dutiful enough to follow them hell or high water, and always has been.
Lilly!Hisao is...well...it was slightly unclear to me at the start of Lilly's path, but you guys can fill this in based on my logic

Our choices after act 1 completes are fewer and honestly less significant in terms of who Hisao is.

Mergumeru wrote:The five girls are a lot more interesting to peel--even Kenji wins over him.

Kind of true? If there's any kind of discussion about where any of the girls might go in the future, figuring out the person they are partnering with is relevant. Lilly would make a hell of a team with a Shizune!Hisao kind of guy. Emi's lack of introspection wouldn't be a problem with a Rin-like person (but not Rin!Hisao), just spinning in one another's orbit, loving one another and not needing to know why.

Mergumeru wrote:Bullet trains, man!

I've never been to Japan, but I've gotten the impression that things are generally closer together and the cities are better planned.

Also, on fictional Earth, everything travels at the speed of plot.
Again, I think this is one of those issues of coordination between the writers...

Murkglow wrote:If she even wants to "solve her family problems." They did after all abandon her for six years (at only 12 years old) and it wasn't like they were putting forth effort into trying to "solve" the problem either... And then there is the question of if going to Scotland even would have solved anything. Maybe she would have simply been left to live alone somewhere and was simply called back because Akira was and they felt "Might as well call Lilly too. It would be the proper thing to do." Just because she was called back to Scotland doesn't necessarily mean things would have changed in a meaningful way for her. And then there is the idea that Hisao's emotional support and backing might do more to help her in her later dealings with her family (providing her with confidence and such) then if she had gone back immediately alone.

We have no of knowing anything about this beyond Akira's opinion. I think she said it was largely their father's decision back then? Lilly might get along fine with the rest of them. This swerves into my own opinions, but it's her decision about how she will relate to her family, and it was really telling that she didn't say anything to Hisao. It's not in the best interests of either of them for Hisao to meddle in this, no matter how guilty and dependent he feels. The purpose of the phone call wouldn't be to make her come all the way back. It would simply be closure.

Mergumeru wrote:Again, all these are open to interpretation.

It has a lot to do with what you value in a relationship and how well you can stand the personalities involved, I think. If you are dealing with Emi, you are dealing with someone who is unaccustomed to introspection and any serious matter will be a struggle. If you are dealing with Rin, you are dealing with someone who does not view the world as something they can really influence, and their self-worth will always be an issue. With Hanako and Lilly, you are on either side of the dependent/depended-upon line. With Shizune, you are focused on the task before you and facing an uncertain future while cherishing those who will help you along the way.

Mergumeru wrote:...oh, the Lilly and Akira he saw in the airport were his hallucination as his heart gives away.

Akira watches Hisao and Lilly from a park bench as they move down the hill in the setting sun. A small wooden top is spinning on the bench beside her. The camera cuts to black before we can tell if the top is wobbling.

Mergumeru wrote:and with this I declare that Shizune's route is canon

I hear you bro.

I'll agree that the decisions Hisao makes change the character he is, but I don't think that has anything to do with him not having a personality. People, especially teenagers, are highly influenced by those around them. They tend to want to fit in and start to show at least a slight bit of interest in the things that there friends are interested in.

Yeah, Hisao's choice change the type of person he is, but that's true of everyone.

I can't think of any point in the game that Hisao's actions don't make sense giving the context of what led to them. He doesn' always do the right thing, but he always wants to help people, although there are times when he doesn't know how and other times he feels he's gone as far as he can and just can't do anymore. Theres quite a few things that never change about the character. He's typically a nice guy, laid back, doesn't have a lot of hobbies, don't make friends easily, likes science, has no idea how to understand women, and so on and so forth.

Now it's true that Hisao is a different person by the end of the game than how he is at the beginning, but all signs point to him being somewhat different before his heart acted up on him as well. It changed how he handled some things and how he saw some things, but at the end he's still the same guy... more or less.

I feel like we're having the conversation that Hisao had with Rin. She was talking about having to force herself to change or destroy herself to be something different, when Hisao was trying to tell her that sometimes people just change. It's just something that happens.

Lilly 61%

LILLY FOR THE WIN!

Lilly is definitely my favorite character in the game, although it's not hard to form that opinion, due to her route being the longest in the game, and with the most sex scenes. xD

Hisao Nakai wrote:Lilly is definitely my favorite character in the game, although it's not hard to form that opinion, due to her route being the longest in the game, and with the most sex scenes. xD

False. Lilly's arc is actually the second shortest in the game, if I remember correctly, after Hanako's. Emi's is the longest, if my calculations are to be trusted. They are.

Emi's arc has an equal number of H-scenes as well.

I thought Shizune's was the longest.

Maybe it just feels the longest.

Hisao Nakai wrote:Lilly 61%

LILLY FOR THE WIN!

Lilly is definitely my favorite character in the game, although it's not hard to form that opinion, due to her route being the longest in the game, and with the most sex scenes. xD

Awww, yea.
One of us! One of us!

Mysterious Stranger wrote:False. Lilly's arc is actually the second shortest in the game, if I remember correctly, after Hanako's. Emi's is the longest, if my calculations are to be trusted. They are.

Emi's arc has an equal number of H-scenes as well.

Alright, it may not technically be the longest, but you go furthest into the relationship with Lilly IMHO.

Inspired by this line of debate, I did some calculation in my Music Index and Table of Contents thread:

Mirrormn wrote:I just counted the number of scenes and music selections in every route. Lilly and Rin's routes each have two counts for music selections; the higher numbers include <Uncomfortable Silence> in their counts, whereas the lower numbers do not. All endings and variations are included. FMV animations are not included.

Emi's route has 30 scenes with 106 music selections.

Hanako's route has 30 scenes with 78 music selections.

Lilly's route has 33 scenes with 102/105 music selections.

Rin's route has 42 scenes with 109/117 music selections.

Shizune's route has 34 scenes with 123 music selections.

Based on this evidence, I'd say Shizune's route is the longest, with Rin in second place, which matches my initial intuition about the subject. I think the music selection count metric is probably more accurate than the scene count metric, since music tends to change pretty regularly, whereas scenes can be pretty variable in length. Obviously, a word count would be the most accurate metric, but it's not one that I'm willing to go through the trouble of calculating.

P.S.: Shizune's route is also the longest in terms of in-story time.