Katawa Shoujo Forums

Can someone justify her manipulations?

One might think she's pulling an Iago and manipulating you to kill babies and old people with how you're portraying her :\

I see Shizune more as just pushy, with a 'never say die' attitude which causes her to never give up. The fact that Hisao is awfully indecisive whether he wants to do something or not, and isn't putting up much of a fight, just gives her more of a reason to egg him on. Also, the benefits go both ways as the Hisao gets to be productive and fit in to the school atmosphere while also having fun. It's not a complete one-way street, so I don't really understand while you're so stark-raving angry about her.

Omnomnom wrote:I see Shizune more as just pushy, with a 'never say die' attitude which causes her to never give up. The fact that Hisao is awfully indecisive whether he wants to do something or not, and isn't putting up much of a fight, just gives her more of a reason to egg him on. Also, the benefits go both ways as the Hisao gets to be productive and fit in to the school atmosphere while also having fun. It's not a complete one-way street, so I don't really understand while you're so stark-raving angry about her.

Except every time he does put up a fight, her path closes. The ONLY way to stay on her arc is to do whatever she says. It's 100% a one way street, both in concept and execution.

And as for Hisao being productive and fit into the school... you realize Shizune takes him OUT of his class, away from other students, and basically puts the three of them together. Skipping school is a bad idea.

I'm not stark-raving mad, I'm just failing to understand how these facets are a good thing.

I guess we approach fiction differently. You're trying to put yourself in Hisao's shoes, which to an extent, is what you're supposed to do. However, I generally take a more hands-off approach to stories. I'm just a visitor in this world, watching the events play out in front of me, perhaps influenced slightly by my whims, but nonetheless strict and linear in its events (Imagine the memories in Harry Potter). However, a well-crafted story also creates a world and universe in which I can play in, and that's where I derive most of my enjoyment from. No, I'm not a fanfic writer, but analyzing and understanding characters outside of the context of their original media is something that I really enjoy.

The constant tug of war between Hisao and Shizune could have had some more variety to it. I wound up going into a readers' coma several times on her route. I think an opportunity to explore the nuances of her competiveness were missed, but ultimately, her chara is the type that has the potential to give Hisao the courage to accept his arrhythmia. It's like, her route exhausted me, but her ending was sweet sweet redemption.

I gotta say this poll makes it hard to decide on just one girl, because each girl brings out a different quality. Hanako brings the moe, so hot it'll melt your face (no offense to burn victims... ). Rin brings the comedy and wit so forcefully you'll applaud (no offense to amputees... ) Lilly brings out the beauty of character so charming you'll take a second glance (no offense to the blind... ). Emi brings the cheerfulness so infectious you'll be jumping for joy (No offense to ampu- wait a second I said this already... open mouth insert foo- I am so going to hell). I already talked about Shizune.

TL;DR: I voted Rin Her spaced out face is like the pitch just before her non sequiturs knock me outta the park. Whoever wrote her scenes deserves homemade cookies baked by a legion of tsunderes who definitely weren't doing it for your sake!!!

I won't go through them in any particular order, just what comes to me as is:

Rin: She's honestly hard for me to grasp. There's definitely a lot more going on in her head than she lets out, and she's terribly unique in her stream of consciousness style of interacting. I think she also had the second most satisfying ending of all of them. However, the way she comes off, at least for me personally, is that she'd definitely be the coolest friend you'd ever have...but just not romantically attractive to me. She's physically cute, but her personality doesn't lend itself to romantic thoughts for me. Probably one of the best written chars in the game up to this point.

Hanako: I came in expecting her to be at the top somewhere. Honestly though, from what little I've seen, she's not quite there. I'm convinced I'll be more attached to her once her backstory is delved into and we're allowed to become that much more sympathetic with her. However, for now, she goes way too far on the shrinking violet side of things. Definitely stirs up my protective instincts, and has the definite moe factor, but....well...

Lily: Attractive in personality and appearance, and I like how she's the only one so far that we get to see a glimpse of her family. However...I dunno, she ended up coming off as....polite but still a slight bit distant? I dunno. I'd have to go through a few more on her side to get a real bead on what my full thoughts are for her.

Emi: Genki desu! Sadly, she comes off as one of the more cliche feeling characters, so far, next to Hinako. However, one of the things that really endeared me to her was her active interest in Hisao's well-being. I guess it comes from being a health freak, from what I've seen, but she seems to be the one that cares most about Hisao on that level, at least as far as helping him deal with himself. And god knows he could use a little relentless optimism. It makes me wonder too about her own personal story, since she and Hanako are the two girls who weren't born with their problems, so it'd be nice to contrast how they've coped and became who they are.

Shizune: Getting the bad out of the way: I agree with those who've said it that the biggest problem with her route is that it ends up the most exclusive, barring a lot of interaction with the other characters. That said, I loved the total interaction between Hisao, Misha, and Shizune. The true childish nature that lurks beneath Shizune's taskmaster impression is endearing to me, and she and Misha compliment each other very well. I'd love to see some consequence of her confrontational and hypercompetitive personality with the other characters though. Still, I ended up enjoying interactions with her and Misha most, and the more I got in, the more I got the sense of her being more playful and teasing than manipulative. Not sure how good it'd be without Misha though, since she seems to dial down the worst of Shizune. Possibly the most satisfying ending of the 5 for me though.

So...yeah, I guess Shizune's my tops here.

Rin is probably my favorite, but I must say I like Hanako too. I thought her ending was elegantly understated

Whee first post! :3

My favorite girl has got to be Misha. Something about that big bubbly smile of hers just makes me wanna cuddle her.

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After thinking about it again a bit more, Rin is probably my favorite girl, not Hanako. She's just so hilariously awesome, and seems like a very interesting person to hang out with. Not sure that I'd want to date her though, those romantic feelings are still reserved more for Hanako, who is just too adorable to ignore. I guess she's the kind of girl who really activates my protective instincts.

Seems like alot of people feel the way I do about Shizune. I agree that the best way to develop her plot line is to take Misha out of the picture. I believe she can be as assertive as she is because Misha is ALWAYS there to back her up. The security of being in a group can work miracles for one self-esteem, but if there was no Misha with her as translator and moral support then Shizune probably wouldn't be able to be as upfront and bossy as she is.

I could grow to like her if she comes to realize that she can't go around constantly forcing someone to doing her bidding, because if she is like that just as a friend I can't imagine how she would be in a relationship. Playing through something like that wouldn't be fun at all. So devs if you are reading this, PLEASE have Hisao learn sign language so he can communicate directly with Shizune. It's the only way to prevent their relationship from being reduced to something similar to Zed and the gimp.

Lilly, but Rin comes as a close second.

Shizune has really grown on me while playing act 1 a few times, something about her forceful nature is appealing to me. It also doesn't hurt that she clearly likes you right from the start.

I could really see spending a lot of time with her.

erisi236 wrote:Shizune has really grown on me while playing act 1 a few times, something about her forceful nature is appealing to me. It also doesn't hurt that she clearly likes you right from the start.

I could really see spending a lot of time with her.

Hmm maybe she does take an instant liking to him, but I feel it's more like she's spotted fresh meat to fill out the ranks of the student council. I simply find it harder to believe Shizune really likes Hisao as opposed to the other girls since everything Shizune does seems to have an ulterior motive. Is she serious or taking advantage of his feelings? Who knows... (since this is a dating game I'd imagine she's serious but Hisao has no way of knowing that.)

Xynar wrote:Hmm maybe she does take an instant liking to him, but I feel it's more like she's spotted fresh meat to fill out the ranks of the student council. I simply find it harder to believe Shizune really likes Hisao as opposed to the other girls since everything Shizune does seems to have an ulterior motive. Is she serious or taking advantage of his feelings? Who knows... (since this is a dating game I'd imagine she's serious but Hisao has no way of knowing that.)

I think her ulterior motives are really just probing you for weakness to see if you truly measure up to her standards. She takes a liking to you, but could never just come out and say it (literally in her case but that's beside the point) without knowing if you measure up in all ways I think. Her roping you into student council is a double win for her, she gets to spend more time with you and gets to test your intelligence and drive to overcome challenges, all the while under the pretense of "well we need more members."

Even the fact the you have to learn a new skill just to talk to her is part of it, I'm sure she'll be quite pleased when you go for sign language class just for her both because you like her enough to talk to her yourself and the fact that you're learning new stuff.

Shizune is a chess player in a World of checkers players.

erisi236, I think I agree with you. I also found Shizune's path somewhat grating until the end, but now that I think about it that has more to do with Hisao's indecisiveness and exaggerated reluctance even after he has agreed to join the Student Council. I enjoyed watching Shizune express her playful side and competetive drive and she seems to really want Hisao to try harder, think faster, and be a worthy rival to her intellect.

The problem is Hisao never even gets a lucky break in the demo. He fails over and over again as you follow her path and if the player has a lot of sympathy for him it feels rather terrible. I would almost expect Shizune to have lost interest in him by the end of the festival because, despite being smart enought to see the game she's playing, he obviously can't keep up.