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Hisao's problem in Lilly's route is basically Hanako's problem in...Well, everyday life. He just sorta leans on Lilly to hold him up, passively accepting any choice she makes and never bothering to assert himself or dare disturb the dynamic with honesty that might disrupt it. He simultaneously places all his weight on her shoulders while being deceptive and roundabout to avoid burdening her with personal stuff (even in the good end, she has to yell at him to shut his trap and just let her worry for once). That's why (assuming bad-end choices), he spends the route skirting around or downplaying any talk of his condition or anything. Lilly's issue with whether to go back to Scotland or not is just a by-product of all that. Honestly, if Hisao had protested from the moment he learned about her summons, I doubt she'd have had much of a problem deciding to stay then and there. But why stay if nobody will put up any kind of fight to keep her there?

As for Hisao's character, it's actually more concretely defined in Lilly's route than anywhere else. Act 1 establishes this kinda mopey depressed guy who hates the idea of his new condition making him a burden (or worse, provoking pity) and resents the fact that his life is suddenly irrevocably altered, and that mostly carries over into Lilly's route whereas the other routes have his character influenced quite a bit by the other girls. His frustration over his condition and uprooted life even carries over so much into Lilly's route that he makes a particular point of neglecting his pills during her story, as if ignoring the daily medication cocktail will somehow prove his condition hasn't changed anything.

Potato wrote:stuff

Interesting. Sounds more like Lilly fixes him than anything.

SpunkySix wrote:

Potato wrote:stuff

Interesting. Sounds more like Lilly fixes him than anything.

Nearly dying helped too.

Potato wrote:

SpunkySix wrote:

Potato wrote:stuff

Interesting. Sounds more like Lilly fixes him than anything.

Nearly dying helped too.

Twice, dare I add.

someguy1294 wrote:in the other routes, his problem comes primarily from his expectation and desires bouncing off the love interest's personal barriers. Thus, Hisao defines himself by struggling against those barriers.

In this case, the barrier he has to deal with in Lilly is that she does everything she can to avoid anything seeming like a conflict. In the other girls' cases, as you say, there is a more active blockage at work; he does something, and meets resistance. In Lilly's case, it's more insidious in that it's not a resistance but a lack of resistance that blocks him. It's only at the end, when he realizes he can't just let things happen and everything will be fine, that he turns active and does something to try to cut through this invisible blockage. Had he not had his heart attack, of course he would have succeeded with her. But then that would be the classic Race For Your Love, played straight. But in this version, it's subverted in that he fails, only pulling success from the jaws of defeat by the accidental skin of his teeth.

Atario wrote:skin of his teeth.

...This is a bizarre expression. Sometimes I have to wonder what on Earth people were thinking to come up with certain things. I imagine I would enjoy Rin's company during these times...

Personally, I like the subversion. It makes the impact all the better by making you think you fucked up. I remember thinking my game was glitched or broken and somehow couldn't access the good end...

Yep, the conflict in Lilly's route is (partially) the lack of conflict, which threatened to make Hisao too passive. Lilly, befitting a traditional Japanese, does whatever she can to avoid conflict or burdening others and always puts on a friendly face even if she's secretly suffering. Hisao fails to properly see past that at first and ends up looking up to Lilly, putting her on a pedestal, being increasingly passive and growing content to simply let Lilly handle everything. This is the exactly opposite of his development in Hanako's route where he briefly comes to see Hanako as a broken person who has to be protected and nearly ended up overreaching to the point where he drove Hanako away. It isn't until Lilly threatens to leave that he realizes that Lilly's not as in control of her own life as she always seemed and that he failed to properly support her in her time of need. The first time Lilly states she's leaving and brings up the reason (Akira's going and my parents want me to come along), it's blatantly obvious she's doing it purely for her family and not for herself, but at that point Hisao's so passive he simply shuts down and doesn't even challenge Lilly's claim. What makes Lilly stay in Japan for real, I'd argue, isn't Hisao's heart attack, but the conversation he has with Lilly afterwards where she once again talks about Akira and her parents and Hisao then asks her to tell him what SHE wants. Just like in Hanako's route, Hisao learns to treat his love interest as an equal.

Guest Poster wrote:What makes Lilly stay in Japan for real, I'd argue, isn't Hisao's heart attack, but the conversation he has with Lilly afterwards where she once again talks about Akira and her parents and Hisao then asks her to tell him what SHE wants. Just like in Hanako's route, Hisao learns to treat his love interest as an equal.

Exactly. He'd have probably caught up with her if his heart hadn't protested so much, and had that same conversation that convinced her to stay. The heart attack is basically just for melodrama.

Potato wrote:

Guest Poster wrote:What makes Lilly stay in Japan for real, I'd argue, isn't Hisao's heart attack, but the conversation he has with Lilly afterwards where she once again talks about Akira and her parents and Hisao then asks her to tell him what SHE wants. Just like in Hanako's route, Hisao learns to treat his love interest as an equal.

Exactly. He'd have probably caught up with her if his heart hadn't protested so much, and had that same conversation that convinced her to stay. The heart attack is basically just for melodrama.

Well, it does serve to show how much he cares, but... basically.

SpunkySix wrote:

Potato wrote:

Guest Poster wrote:What makes Lilly stay in Japan for real, I'd argue, isn't Hisao's heart attack, but the conversation he has with Lilly afterwards where she once again talks about Akira and her parents and Hisao then asks her to tell him what SHE wants. Just like in Hanako's route, Hisao learns to treat his love interest as an equal.

Exactly. He'd have probably caught up with her if his heart hadn't protested so much, and had that same conversation that convinced her to stay. The heart attack is basically just for melodrama.

Well, it does serve to show how much he cares, but... basically.

I think his running after her is enough to show care. XD

Well, yeah, but fighting through a heart attack just to talk to her is pretty extreme devotion.

The good ending seemed like something out of a movie, which was exactly what I'd expect from Lilly's route tbh.

dutic wrote:The good ending seemed like something out of a movie, which was exactly what I'd expect from Lilly's route tbh.

That's odd because it's the opposite of what I'd expect from this VN in general. Lilly seems like the odd one out, in that respect.

dutic wrote:The good ending seemed like something out of a movie, which was exactly what I'd expect from Lilly's route tbh.

It was definitely one of the more traditional endings, but it was seriously done really well.

SpunkySix wrote:

dutic wrote:The good ending seemed like something out of a movie, which was exactly what I'd expect from Lilly's route tbh.

That's odd because it's the opposite of what I'd expect from this VN in general. Lilly seems like the odd one out, in that respect.

Lilly's route was supposed to be cliche-filled though.
Hell, it even says it on the original sketch (translated to English anyway)
I mean, look at it: