Katawa Shoujo Forums

Beoran wrote:As for the wife in your story, perhaps you could send her a sympathetic reply?

I'll admit that possibility hadn't even occurred to me. I had only identified two courses of action 1.) Not reply at all or 2.) Tell her off for trying to stir up trouble. Your suggestion seems like the best thing to do and I'm working on a short reply to her right now.

You know, Hanako's story actually had a pretty massive impact on me. I'm a first year medical student who has OCD or anxiety and ADHD and was really struggling with school for the past few months. Medicine is like a bottomless pit; no matter how deep you go, you can always go deeper. Before I came to medical school I was pretty obsessive about the ways I did things. I was scared of going out and doing things with other people because of what they might think of me and I obsessively tried to memorize everything that I encountered in my studies, which made textbooks virtually impossible to read. The only way I could study was by memorizing outlines of key material. I was very good at it, but in medical school they don't really cater to the individual, so I would spend weeks procrastinating, panicking about how I was falling behind and couldn't study. I became more and more insular as a result too, since my overall anxiety shot up and I didn't want to talk with other people. Eventually I found out that Katawa Shoujo had come out, which I had been looking forward too, and I played it as a way to procrastinate more. When I hit Hanako's story, it really made me feel... weird. I really got into it and felt like I could really understand how Hanako feels to be alone and feel like she isn't good enough for the world around me. I was bullied a lot as a kid as well and learned that I always had to be perfect and take care of everything on my own. I remember crying at the end of Hanako's story and not knowing why. Eventually I realized that going through Hanako's story made me realize how much I wanted someone to help me figure things out and give me the chance to be myself again. I could relate to her so much, I felt, and I was so envious of how she eventually broke out of the loneliness she had been living in and started to get better. So, I called the people at the school who I needed to, get set up with a therapist, got started on some medications, and now I'm headed in the right direction. I'm still figuring things out, but I feel like Hanako's story was the trigger which got me to stop trying to figure everything out on my own and bury how I was feeling and face it head on. I'm really thankful for it.

@schackm2
I feel for you man, I know very well what you're living right now.
Before I played Katawa Shoujo I was really struggling secretly with my life too. For about four years I almost never talked about what was happening to me (severe anxiety pretty much) to anybody, and when I did, it made things worse. So i kept my mouth shut for four long years.

Playing Hanako's path made me realize the same thing as you: if somebody who's situation is way worst than me, and getting better with just a little bit of help, I can get out of this... abyss too. I just needed an hear and someone who could help me. Which I did found thankfully.
It's been less than a month now, and I have my first appointment with a psychologist next week, I'm stressing about it a bit but hey, it's for the best!
I'm happy to see that you're getting better, I'm getting there too. Best of luck to you!

@Shadow250000
I'm looking forward to your post, take your time and rest assured that I will read it, no matter how long it is.

We can get better, I do really think so. Some of us just need a nice kick in the arse and this "cripple porn game" was exactly that, however strange it seems to be.

MoogleDee wrote:Tossing up the link to the light-novel I wrote about past relationships. I picked up where I left off last night, and realized that if i didn't stop myself and reach some sort of point, I could have kept writing for days. I'm still not going to post the whole 1773 words here though, I don't like posting that much on forums. Besides, I've started to fall behind on this thread and I need to start reading the new posts.

1Gr1mm, you're an incredibly strong person. You've had a lot taken from you, but in spite of that you still move forward with your head held high. I really admire that and wish the best for you.

Finally got around to reading your story, and it's great. I wish you luck on future relationships, and I hope you wish the same on me haha.

You seem to have a lot of the same personality traits as me, kind of rare to see, as I can't relate to many people. It's the reason I have so many friends (from pot smokers, to gaming nerds) because there really isn't a 'group' I fit into.

I wrote my story earlier on and won't bore you with an abridged version here, essentially my life has been miserable. In addition to depression, suicide, and dealing with abuse, I struggle to interact with people. I have always been lonely, preferring to be alone, but that is due to my almost fear of social situations. I used to be someone who was afraid to speak up to ask for people to move in the aisle of a store. I once got off the bus several stops away (a 30min walk) due to being unable to raise my voice for others to move.

I like to think of myself as an accomplished author even early on. In 6th grade, I won a mandatory speech contest. My prize was getting to read it in front of the entire school and go to state level. I did not want this at all. I'm a good writer, but terrified of public speaking. Oddly enough, the topic was about 'listening' and my speech was about how people hear the words someone says, but doesn't care to understand the meaning or uses selective filtering. Well, I told the teacher that I couldn't do it. She said I had no choice. I told her that didn't really sound like a prize and she answered with a cold 'I don't care."

I've been bullied by teachers in the past despite being very quiet, well behaved, and always acing everything. My kindergarten teacher had me teach myself to write due to her refusal to teach left handers. I'm not even that old and there are people still with the antiquated view that being left handed is evil. My shyness has been deemed me refusing to follow the rules of group work, because I preferred to work alone. I've had students tell me on numerous occasions 'you either do all or we will get an F because I (the other student) won't do a thing). Had a teacher call me a tattle tell when I told her what the other group member said to me.

Anyway, I remembered the speech word for word. Standing in front of the entire school body, camcorders aimed at me, and the judges with pens ready, I forgot everything. I started to head off the stage but the teacher ushered me to try again. I ended up crying in front of the entire school in 6th grade (most of these people would be at my middle school next year). No one came to comfort me when I ran off the stage. The teachers didn't let me run off to the bathroom to cry out of the public eye (had to sit on the sideline chairs where other contestants were).

I just wanted to share that story that I rarely do. It wasn't the first time I cried during a speech, but first time in front of such a large audience. When I'm in groups of a few people, I became silent. I went with one of my few irl friends to a bar last night. I became so quiet due to so many people were there and there was this super loud extrovert that dominated my friend's attention so I hated myself for not being funny, crazy acting as the extroverts.

One last story, in middle school, I had a teacher actually notice how depressed and suicidal I was. In third grade they had a joke award ceremony and gave me the 'most serious student award'. You think some teachers would notice that I was never smiling, talking, happy in the least and prone to crying was a sign that something was wrong. Well in 8th grade a teacher did notice or the school counselor. She started up this 'self esteem club' solely for me and invited a couple of other loners. I was called to the counselor's via the intercom so everyone gave me a look like 'wtf is wrong with you?'.

When I walked in the office, she told me how it was the 'self esteem club' and that we would meet every Tuesday. I noticed a couple other people who have been bullied. The counselor went on about how they will have a pizza part to celebrate building our esteem. I really really really desperately wanted to talk to someone, but I was feeling angry that it had to be known to the entire school. The first thought that flashed in my mind was 'this was the loser's club'. I knew her heart was in the right place, but it would have been better if I was told about this in private. I told her no thank you over and over after she tried to convince me it would be good...... it would have been good and helpful.... i needed that so bad.... but I walked away and didn't see a therapist until well after my hanging attempt in high school....

I wish I had just gone to talk to her in private but my mom embedded the idea that depressed people are just crazy. She had told me if I ever spoke to anyone about my depression that I'd be thrown into an asylum with drug addicts and people with schizophrenia. I'd been told I'd probably be raped there too (I was almost raped in college so that is why I hate the Hanako 'fan' art... I know it is fiction, but rape isn't funny especially when you had experience someone pulling you into a dark alley against your will). So I was fearful to tell any authority figures how I felt.

How I felt last night, silent desperately wishing I can interact with people, I know I'm not that much better than the young girl who struggled through public school hell.

micechasekittens wrote:I used to be someone who was afraid to speak up to ask for people to move in the aisle of a store. I once got off the bus several stops away (a 30min walk) due to being unable to raise my voice for others to move.

I'm like this as well. While I'm at work, I usually have to put stuff away, and people tend to block my path. I try to say "excuse me," but they usually can't hear me. It's almost always someone else that notices me and lets the others know in some way or another. One way is that someone actually simply yelled, "COMING THROUGH!" to get them to move, since I was just waiting for them to move first.

micechasekittens wrote:I like to think of myself as an accomplished author even early on. In 6th grade, I won a mandatory speech contest. My prize was getting to read it in front of the entire school and go to state level. I did not want this at all. I'm a good writer, but terrified of public speaking. Oddly enough, the topic was about 'listening' and my speech was about how people hear the words someone says, but doesn't care to understand the meaning or uses selective filtering. Well, I told the teacher that I couldn't do it. She said I had no choice. I told her that didn't really sound like a prize and she answered with a cold 'I don't care."

Public speaking...the bane of my existence. In high school, it was a required class for graduation, and I barely passed because I got so nervous that I would move away from the podium, pacing a little bit, and if you looked closely, my hands wouldn't stop shaking. It sounds like this teacher was solely there to get a paycheck, and not because they enjoyed teaching.

micechasekittens wrote:I've been bullied by teachers in the past despite being very quiet, well behaved, and always acing everything. My kindergarten teacher had me teach myself to write due to her refusal to teach left handers. I'm not even that old and there are people still with the antiquated view that being left handed is evil. My shyness has been deemed me refusing to follow the rules of group work, because I preferred to work alone. I've had students tell me on numerous occasions 'you either do all or we will get an F because I (the other student) won't do a thing). Had a teacher call me a tattle tell when I told her what the other group member said to me.

I don't want to sound invasive or anything, but was this a private school? It seems to me that there are certain groups of religious people who see "being different in any way" as evil. I don't like doing group work for that reason.(You don't have to answer this question if you don't want to, it was just a thought that popped up in my head). I somehow always wind up with the majority of the work. The same thing happened to my sister as well. The one time one of my group members actually brought this up, it was a 4 person group, and we got split up into 2 groups of two, and I still wound up doing extra work.

micechasekittens wrote:Anyway, I remembered the speech word for word. Standing in front of the entire school body, camcorders aimed at me, and the judges with pens ready, I forgot everything. I started to head off the stage but the teacher ushered me to try again. I ended up crying in front of the entire school in 6th grade (most of these people would be at my middle school next year). No one came to comfort me when I ran off the stage. The teachers didn't let me run off to the bathroom to cry out of the public eye (had to sit on the sideline chairs where other contestants were).

This same type of thing happened every single time I had to read something in front of a class (unless I had some sort of visuals to help illustrate points that I had). I only really shook my hands and tried to move around, though. I can only remember crying in class once, and that was because I had woken up that morning with a serious neck cramp, so I went through the first half of the day with my head tilted so that my neck wouldn't hurt as much. In my third hour class, there was one kid who tilted his head to the side and was saying something like, "Hi, my name's Sean, and I have a neck cramp" in one of those "I'm making fun of you" voices. At the end of that class, I was crying, but I was lucky that this was the one class that had a teacher that knew enough about me that she knew something was wrong, and told me that I should just go home early that day, which I did. I don't want to sound mean with this, I guess I'm just telling a story that your story reminded me of.

micechasekittens wrote:You think some teachers would notice that I was never smiling, talking, happy in the least and prone to crying was a sign that something was wrong. Well in 8th grade a teacher did notice or the school counselor. She started up this 'self esteem club' solely for me and invited a couple of other loners. I was called to the counselor's via the intercom so everyone gave me a look like 'wtf is wrong with you?'.

There's a joke that I have about "you think something obvious," but I'm not sure if it's entirely appropriate. I hate being singled out like that, because I just know that as soon as I leave, or as soon as I get up, everybody's is either going to be whispering about me behind my back, or doing that stupid "OOOOOooooh" thing.

micechasekittens wrote:How I felt last night, silent desperately wishing I can interact with people, I know I'm not that much better than the young girl who struggled through public school hell.

This is going to sound REALLY corny, but I think that you would be a better person than you were with these experiences. Yeah, it sucks, but maybe you can use those experiences to help people that are having the same problems.

Anything that was left out was read, I just didn't really have a response to those.

And now I feel like I have my thoughts organized enough to say what I had teased at before.

I just finished Hanako's bad ending. It slapped me in the face, kicked me in the shin, and screamed in my ear. Is that how I tend to treat people? Do I just lash out at people if they annoy me enough? Have I just been rejecting all the help that people might have been offering me? I know that my parents brought up depression about a year ago, when they looked at my grades for my second semester, and seeing that I failed a couple classes. I flatly denied it then, and now that I see it, I just can't open my mouth to bring it up around my parents again. It's driving me crazy.

It wasn't a private school (at least then i could have a cute outfit, I do have a pleated skirt, white dress shirt, and gray blazer that i wore once out but got a few people asking if i was an exchange student at a Korean high school due to looking rather young lol). The school was in Texas. Had a teacher glare at me in elementary school for not reciting the religious words in the pledge.

It is nice to know someone else had similar experiences as me regarding social anxiety. Wish I could give you an internet hug Exbando, you are so awesome to read and reply to so many people, including me. I don't lash out at people, though I tend to push people away as I have been told such nasty things growing up that I view compliments with suspicion as being not the truth but born from pity. Like my coping mechanism is to say worsethings about myself than others. The logic is that then others can't hurt me, but now it has become a reflex when someone says something positive about me. I even deny myself food on occasions due to feeling like I deserve it for not being good enough. One of my few friends has noted that I appear even skinnier which is surprising since I'm only 50kg.

I did learn a few techniques to dealing with fear of public speaking. One thing is not to fight the physical impulses such as nervous shakes, because that will only cause the shaking and anxiety to ramp up. Many people don't notice the nervousness. Figure out what are the main points you want to get across instead of worrying that you say every word perfectly so even if you stumble you aren't fretting over missing a line. I know start many things making light joke about being nervous at the start which causes many people to be encouraging and not so harsh. As you pointed out, focusing on props such as visuals helps to pull attention off oneself. Also doing a subpar speech is better than crying in front of everyone, so best to just push through and get it over with.

I've never been able to do presentations or the likes... I often even refused to do them outright, when a teacher told me that I either had to do it, or I would fail my exam, I choise failing the exam without even having to think about it. It sucks, but I just can't do those kinds of things, I just freeze up completely when I do stuff like that, and I have no idea why. It's also the reason why I never finished high school, because your last year requires you to do a big presentation, wich I was unable to do.

I had my fair share of difficulties with that, too. But for the exams I just said "screw it, sticks and stones, and besides, the faster I am finished with school, the sooner I don't see these scumbags anymore".

micechasekittens wrote: Wish I could give you an internet hug Exbando, you are so awesome to read and reply to so many people, including me.

This statement just gave me the biggest genuine smile I've had in a very long time. Thank you.

micechasekittens wrote:I don't lash out at people, though I tend to push people away as I have been told such nasty things growing up that I view compliments with suspicion as being not the truth but born from pity. Like my coping mechanism is to say worsethings about myself than others. The logic is that then others can't hurt me, but now it has become a reflex when someone says something positive about me. I even deny myself food on occasions due to feeling like I deserve it for not being good enough. One of my few friends has noted that I appear even skinnier which is surprising since I'm only 50kg.

Well, to me, it seems that you were able to express your emotions through crying when something bad happened(not trying to sound like an expert, just "thinking out loud," so to speak). With me, though, I never cried when I got bullied during school (except that one time that was mentioned in the previous post), and I only really got angry once when I got bullied (it ended up with my knee hitting that boy in the one spot boys don't want to get a knee struck), so I don't think I ever really got to express my emotions properly, which, I think, is what causes me to lash out when under enough stress. I usually think of compliments (except the one you just left me) as lies to simply make me feel better, and I'll just respond with something like, "Yeah, whatever."

micechasekittens wrote:I did learn a few techniques to dealing with fear of public speaking. One thing is not to fight the physical impulses such as nervous shakes, because that will only cause the shaking and anxiety to ramp up. Many people don't notice the nervousness. Figure out what are the main points you want to get across instead of worrying that you say every word perfectly so even if you stumble you aren't fretting over missing a line. I know start many things making light joke about being nervous at the start which causes many people to be encouraging and not so harsh. As you pointed out, focusing on props such as visuals helps to pull attention off oneself. Also doing a subpar speech is better than crying in front of everyone, so best to just push through and get it over with.

The thing is, though, that this particular teacher wanted us to fight those impulses, "because it's distracting to the audience," so my grade was lowered because of that. I did make a little joke at the beginning of a recent "presentation" I had to give for a graphic arts class. I just opened with, "Hi, I'm the guy that used to have a beard but now doesn't anymore." Now that I look back at that, it did make me a little bit more comfortable. I also wasn't getting graded on my performance style (as far as I know).

danyo wrote:I've never been able to do presentations or the likes... I often even refused to do them outright, when a teacher told me that I either had to do it, or I would fail my exam, I choise failing the exam without even having to think about it. It sucks, but I just can't do those kinds of things, I just freeze up completely when I do stuff like that, and I have no idea why. It's also the reason why I never finished high school, because your last year requires you to do a big presentation, which I was unable to do.

That's why I hated some of the absurd graduation requirements that some high schools have. I always went, "When am I going to use THIS stuff in the field I want to go into?

Exbando wrote:

danyo wrote:I've never been able to do presentations or the likes... I often even refused to do them outright, when a teacher told me that I either had to do it, or I would fail my exam, I choise failing the exam without even having to think about it. It sucks, but I just can't do those kinds of things, I just freeze up completely when I do stuff like that, and I have no idea why. It's also the reason why I never finished high school, because your last year requires you to do a big presentation, which I was unable to do.

That's why I hated some of the absurd graduation requirements that some high schools have. I always went, "When am I going to use THIS stuff in the field I want to go into?

Yeah, I had the exact same sentiment, I'll never do a job that would require me to do something like that, why would I need to do something like that to graduate? Ah well, what's done is done, and even though I sometimes regret not getting my diploma, I'll never be able to do it under those circumstances regardless, so I'm not to hard on myself because of it.

micechasekittens wrote:It wasn't a private school (at least then i could have a cute outfit, I do have a pleated skirt, white dress shirt, and gray blazer that i wore once out but got a few people asking if i was an exchange student at a Korean high school due to looking rather young lol). The school was in Texas. Had a teacher glare at me in elementary school for not reciting the religious words in the pledge.

North Carolina, for me. Except I was told to leave the classroom <.<

micechasekittens wrote:It is nice to know someone else had similar experiences as me regarding social anxiety. Wish I could give you an internet hug Exbando, you are so awesome to read and reply to so many people, including me. I don't lash out at people, though I tend to push people away as I have been told such nasty things growing up that I view compliments with suspicion as being not the truth but born from pity. Like my coping mechanism is to say worse things about myself than others. The logic is that then others can't hurt me, but now it has become a reflex when someone says something positive about me. I even deny myself food on occasions due to feeling like I deserve it for not being good enough. One of my few friends has noted that I appear even skinnier which is surprising since I'm only 50kg.

hmm. I never rally received compliments. Or I never really saw them that way when I was in school. always "You tall." or "You're smart." Being the tallest one and had the best grades, I figured they were just being obvious. I never was really self depreciating, but I never really was given the opportunity I suppose lol. Probably cause I'm a guy, and male students just don't compliment each other. At least they didn't when I was growing up. Never really talked to girls at all in school. I think because of my social fears, I just thought no one liked me, so I didn't care to find out. I always figured I'd be forever alone.

micechasekittens wrote:I did learn a few techniques to dealing with fear of public speaking. One thing is not to fight the physical impulses such as nervous shakes, because that will only cause the shaking and anxiety to ramp up. Many people don't notice the nervousness. Figure out what are the main points you want to get across instead of worrying that you say every word perfectly so even if you stumble you aren't fretting over missing a line. I know start many things making light joke about being nervous at the start which causes many people to be encouraging and not so harsh. As you pointed out, focusing on props such as visuals helps to pull attention off oneself. Also doing a subpar speech is better than crying in front of everyone, so best to just push through and get it over with.

The only thing that worked for me was to never look at the audience. I usually memorized my essay or the main points and told it with my eyes closed or looking down. And that was only when I couldn't just refuse. Even reciting to the class got me really nervous. Sometimes I felt like because I was so nervous people would pay more attention hoping I'd blow up.


So yeah, I know how it goes. I still have problems in public places even though I'm 30. I usually have to just go with an attitude of superiority so I can deal with people. Like if I think I'm better than everyone else, they can't judge me. It's a pretty terrible coping mechanism, but it works for going to the store or dealing with people at work. I have only a couple friends, but I'm glad I can be myself around them. Even though I get hit on every now and then, I tend to think that I'll be one of them forever alone people. Funny that all the people who show interest in me, I have no interest in them. Then again most are cougars and gay guys. It's amusing, but I got no real interest.

I'm pretty sure it was Mark Twain that said:
“There are two types of speakers: those who get nervous and those who are liars.”

Public speaking always made me nervous in High School and College. I discovered early on a technique for dealing with my anxiety: pretend to be someone else. That way if they judged or criticized the person speaking, it wouldn't be 'me' they were judging. For me, public speaking was an opportunity to pretend to be be all of the things I couldn't be in normal person-to-person interactions: funny, confident, charming, witty and personable. For some reason, being behind that podium was empowering for me: I could pretend to be someone that I wasn't. I enjoyed drama club and announcing for the morning televised announcements in high school for that same reason. Whenever I was on stage, behind a podium or in front of a camera, I could say and do things that the real "me" never would.

micechasekittens wrote:I did learn a few techniques to dealing with fear of public speaking. One thing is not to fight the physical impulses such as nervous shakes, because that will only cause the shaking and anxiety to ramp up.

My father taught me an interesting technique for this that I used in my speeches: scrunch my toes. That way I could scrunch and un-scrunch my toes to work out the physical impulses, but without distracting the audience. I heard about a guy that used that used that technique to great effect in his speeches until he did a Roman themed speech dressed in sandals and a toga. The front four rows or so of the audience was completely mesmerized by the guy's feet

micechasekittens wrote:Had a teacher glare at me in elementary school for not reciting the religious words in the pledge.

I had a friend that went to another Middle School who suffered all sorts of backlash after he did the same thing. Difference was, he was the one leading the pledge for the school over the PA.

@Beoran - Part of what sucks about having such varied experiences is knowing what I don't have anymore. I do appreciate the kind words though and the feeling is mutual.

@Shilver - Right back 'atcha, man. Looking back at high school and even middle school I never fit into any of the cliques. I found myself being able to seamlessly blend in with just about everyone except for the people I couldn't stand.

@schackm2 - It sounds like you were saved by Hanako's story. I'm really glad you reached out and got help when you needed it. Looking for help is one of the things that's inherently difficult for me so like you, I tend to just look after myself. Also, med School is one of those things that's always seemed like it was murderously difficult and intimidating. I have a LOT of respect for anyone taking that path and I wish you the absolute best in your studies.

@micechasekittens - I just had a tinge of White-Knightism reading about your experience with your speech and how you were treated at school by the teachers. It makes me really upset to think that teachers, of all people, would treat a child so differently just because they're left handed. One thing that I think sounds... weird, and I almost don't want to say it, but I kind of envy how a teacher actually reached out to you. Growing up, none of my teachers were atrocious, but they never did anything above and beyond either. I'm sure they could have taken a different method to doing it, but I think it was notable that they tried.