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Not directing this at anyone in particular, but the difference is Hanako isn't a real person, so its okay to fantasize a bit about wanting to help and comfort her. Just don't try to apply this to a real person.

I'm like Hanako in a lot of ways. I'm kind of a mess emotionally, and I appreciate having a friend to lean on sometimes. But at the same time, I feel horribly guilty if they try to do too much or just give me stuff out of the blue. So I'll often feel the need to repay them somehow. So really, I can sympathize. And if I met someone like her, I like to think I'd be inclined to offer her a helping hand to build herself up rather than treat her like a delicate flower. I may be mis-enterpretign her again, but I get the feeling that what she hates more than anything is people who try to control her.

Not that I've always been like that. But I have KS to thank for changing my attitudes.

Not trying to sound mean at all, but since when is helping someone "trying to control them"? I'm still trying to put my finger on just why it's such a "sick and evil" thing to want to help someone and bring joy and warmth to their heart, to make them smile. I don't know about you guys, but I was trained and raised differently. Mine is more proper if you ask me. One should not fear true concern, but rather appreciate it. All too often, the alternative of being a condescending, prideful careless prick is done instead. In this day and age, someone like me is what I like to call a "biological rarity." Why? Because genes, chemicals, what have you, aren't the driving force behind my actions anyway. I'm trained to understand things in ways not many do, and not many will even see the truth behind that statement. I myself am still trying to work it out, searching for the meaning of just what it means to protect and cherish a woman's heart, to defend her.

I don't get it. I have very simple and childlike, and yet at the same time, very complicated thinking. This type of thought process seems beyond most people, but I find it natural like breathing. A friend of mine said something to me once. "A joyful heart is the natural result of a heart filled with love." So I will want to share that warmth and happiness with others, specifically with those who need it most.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Not trying to sound mean at all, but since when is helping someone "trying to control them"? I'm still trying to put my finger on just why it's such a "sick and evil" thing to want to help someone and bring joy and warmth to their heart, to make them smile. I don't know about you guys, but I was trained and raised differently. Mine is more proper if you ask me. One should not fear true concern, but rather appreciate it. All too often, the alternative of being a condescending, prideful careless prick is done instead. In this day and age, someone like me is what I like to call a "biological rarity." Why? Because genes, chemicals, what have you, aren't the driving force behind my actions anyway. I'm trained to understand things in ways not many do, and not many will even see the truth behind that statement. I myself am still trying to work it out, searching for the meaning of just what it means to protect and cherish a woman's heart, to defend her.

I don't get it. I have very simple and childlike, and yet at the same time, very complicated thinking. This type of thought process seems beyond most people, but I find it natural like breathing. A friend of mine said something to me once. "A joyful heart is the natural result of a heart filled with love." So I will want to share that warmth and happiness with others, specifically with those who need it most.

I wasn't criticizing you in my comments, I was just speaking generally. I don't think she objects to people doing things for her, though if shes anything like me, she feel a bit bad when someone does something very generous, like buying her an expensive present. She's grateful, but it bothers her a lot that she's unable/can't afford to do something in return.

As for controlling, I was thinking mainly of her bad ending, where Hisao kept insisting on pulling her outside, almost completely ignoring her wishes to be left alone. It's obvious that's what set her off in the end.

Helping her is fine and admirable, but only if she wants it, and you don't try to live her life for her.

Like Hisao said during the Good finale: "Ever since I met Hanako, I've been the one to initiate everything between us. The one that started conversations, went to her wherever she was, and suggested what we should do. Today this once, I don't want to be the only one doing that."

I was also replying rhetorically, though everyone's comments to me ever since I signed up here are what set me off. I'm pointing at you, GP! Thinking that the only way I feel validated is if I'm rescuing the damsel in distress. I feel anything but average, even in normal situations. Like Shizune, I possess a drive and positivity that I bring to each day, no matter how big or small the daily tasks. Like Lilly, I'm polite, but get under my skin and you'll know it... some of the time. Like Hanako, I can be shy around strangers. But I'm quick to open up once I engage in conversation with someone. Like Rin, a lot of my thinking can be considered philosophical, if not also idealistic. And like Emi... well... I can't really think of much that puts me in her boat. If anything, I think the complete opposite of her, welcoming close relationships even though I only have a few. And, like Misha... I can often possess a random happy-go-lucky quality, seemingly laughing at nothing sometimes, but secretly amused by a passing thought. A byproduct of a joyful heart, I believe.

All too often, the alternative of being a condescending, prideful careless prick is done instead.

Actually it's a spectrum rather than a black and white choice. There's the act of being a careless and selfish prick, there's the equally unhealthy opposite of putting a person on a pedestal (which is a pretty lonely place in its own right) and there's the wide open space between the two extremes. I'd like to think most people desire to be somewhere in the middle.

I myself am still trying to work it out, searching for the meaning of just what it means to protect and cherish a woman's heart, to defend her.

If you're quoting something or someone, I'm afraid I missed the reference. What exactly do women need to be protected and defended from? It's not like we live in the stone age anymore.

I wasn't criticizing you in my comments, I was just speaking generally. I don't think she objects to people doing things for her, though if shes anything like me, she feel a bit bad when someone does something very generous, like buying her an expensive present. She's grateful, but it bothers her a lot that she's unable/can't afford to do something in return.

As for controlling, I was thinking mainly of her bad ending, where Hisao kept insisting on pulling her outside, almost completely ignoring her wishes to be left alone. It's obvious that's what set her off in the end.

Helping her is fine and admirable, but only if she wants it, and you don't try to live her life for her.

Like Hisao said during the Good finale: "Ever since I met Hanako, I've been the one to initiate everything between us. The one that started conversations, went to her wherever she was, and suggested what we should do. Today this once, I don't want to be the only one doing that."

Hanako has extremely low self-esteem and views herself as a continuous burden on others, so doing too much can easily backfire and make Hanako feel even worse about herself. She definitely had that issue with Lilly and Hisao during her route. Too much of something is never good. Hisao's words were a pretty good indicator of the imbalance in their relationship.

So who said I'd only be focused on "helping" her? What I mean is my actions would have the side effect of helping her. How would I do it? By being her friend. Heck, think like a double 0 here. Mission: Get close to Hanako. How do you do it? Just be her friend. Say nice things to her from time to time. Ask her for help on things too! Hisao could have been like "Hey Hanako, I'm having trouble with my history work. Could you look up some books in the library for me?" What does that do? It makes her feel wanted, feel needed. Like she can help someone. I noticed that painfully lacking in her route, Hisao never really counted on her for help. She seems like a really smart girl that absorbs information really fast. They could have studied together and not just played chess and had tea together. Know what I'm saying? Maybe this is the kind of stuff I should have said when I said I'd like to help her. This is the stuff I was talking about.

pandaphil wrote:Not directing this at anyone in particular, but the difference is Hanako isn't a real person, so its okay to fantasize a bit about wanting to help and comfort her. Just don't try to apply this to a real person.

I'm not real? Then what am I?

Guest Poster wrote:

I wasn't criticizing you in my comments, I was just speaking generally. I don't think she objects to people doing things for her, though if shes anything like me, she feel a bit bad when someone does something very generous, like buying her an expensive present. She's grateful, but it bothers her a lot that she's unable/can't afford to do something in return.

As for controlling, I was thinking mainly of her bad ending, where Hisao kept insisting on pulling her outside, almost completely ignoring her wishes to be left alone. It's obvious that's what set her off in the end.

Helping her is fine and admirable, but only if she wants it, and you don't try to live her life for her.

Like Hisao said during the Good finale: "Ever since I met Hanako, I've been the one to initiate everything between us. The one that started conversations, went to her wherever she was, and suggested what we should do. Today this once, I don't want to be the only one doing that."

Hanako has extremely low self-esteem and views herself as a continuous burden on others, so doing too much can easily backfire and make Hanako feel even worse about herself. She definitely had that issue with Lilly and Hisao during her route. Too much of something is never good. Hisao's words were a pretty good indicator of the imbalance in their relationship.

Hanako desires to be treated like a regular person. So far in her life she has either been treated as an abomination or as a porcelaine doll. Like Guest Poster said, she sees herself as a burden to others. This is because people either feel they have to avoid her or treat her as if she was bubble that will pop unless tended too constantly. Either way, this goes against one of the things she wants most: to be viewed as a normal human being.

Of course, and what I'd want to do in the case of someone like her is be her friend, and treat her like a regular person. Why is that so hard for some people to see? I've lost the urge to sugarcoat my words and have switched to using steady, strong cuts.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Of course, and what I'd want to do in the case of someone like her is be her friend, and treat her like a regular person. Why is that so hard for some people to see? I've lost the urge to sugarcoat my words and have switched to using steady, strong cuts.

I was just adding to the conversation. I wasn't saying anyone would not do this, though most people wouldn't as we have seen in the route.

I was mainly directing my comment toward other people. I got no problem with you, man. What I have a problem with is people that can't understand my simple logic. I guess I have to make everything like third grade conversational level because the more I talk, the more people misunderstand me.

Selim Bradley wrote: I was just adding to the conversation. I wasn't saying anyone would not do this, though most people wouldn't as we have seen in the route.

Which always puzzled me greatly. Shes a lovely person despite her scars. Why would anyone recoil from her, or turn on her like her friends did? I suppose its like Guest Poster said, its a Japanese cultural thing. Her scars made her different, so shes suddenly an outcast.

All I can figure when she was grown up is that people tried to get to know her, but she'd run away so fast that nobody could get close to her. Makes me wonder if there might be some Yamaku studient out there who's secretly nurturing a crush on her.

The story is about Hisao though, so the point is for him to be with her if the reader wishes. Now, as for the various Hanako x OC fanfics out there...

When I think about Hanako, I imagine that I'm Hisao, because I think a lot about what different things I would have done, were I in his position.

pandaphil wrote:

Selim Bradley wrote: I was just adding to the conversation. I wasn't saying anyone would not do this, though most people wouldn't as we have seen in the route.

Which always puzzled me greatly. Shes a lovely person despite her scars. Why would anyone recoil from her, or turn on her like her friends did? I suppose its like Guest Poster said, its a Japanese cultural thing. Her scars made her different, so shes suddenly an outcast.

It's not just their culture.

@Heartman: I honestly don't know if you would believe me this, but i used to be a lot like you a year or two ago. Please believe me when i say that i find your intentions sincere/kind, but i do have to agree with Guest Poster or Xanatos on any debate they have with you. Mainly, i honestly think you don't realize how some of your declarations or opinions come off as, even if they are well-intentioned.

On-topic: I haven't played the route in a while but exactly what did Hisao do wrong in the Bar/pool scene? In which way did he "drop the ball"?

I think it was using the word "protect." Something tells me that Hanako doesn't like that word. Nobody likes that word, they automatically assume it means you treat them like a child and what not.