Katawa Shoujo Forums

delta wrote:

Teclo wrote:Just about to start playing Cross Channel.

I wouldn't recommend games before playing them, especially not terrible ones like Cross Channel.

Any hints why it's so terrible?
The premise sounds kinda interesting...

Edit:
Just did a bit of research myself... Forget I asked ^^°

Yeah, so far I'd have to say it has a pretty horrible voice (figuratively speaking) for protagonist, and a truly creepy way in which he interacts with everyone. I'm kind of torn between hating it because it sounds like someone with extreme autism trying to charm a girl while licking her coat and quoting Star Trek - and all the while thinking he's being incredibly cool and witty - and liking it because it at least makes the "generic assholes in a generic Japanese schools doing generic things" formula at least more readable. Even though Ever 17 is better (insofar that VN fans say it's good) I couldn't get into that at all because the writing style is so flat and the characters are numbingly boring - until the inevitable twists at the very end where it's revealed that Character A is actually a robot, Character B is just the existential remains of a dead guy, Character C is a time traveller, Character D is the human personification of the 18th of January, etc, etc, insert typical trying-too-hard VN bullshit here. Basically, Cross Channel is remaining somewhat enjoyable simply because it doesn't seem to be a handful of sleeping tablets in text form like FS/N, Tsukihime or Ever 17. But yeah, it's pretty stupid and crass at the same time.

Hey, I've read through all of this thread but I'm still at a loss for what to try out next!

Obviously I've played and loved the hell out of the Act 1 Demo for KS, but besides that the only VN I've tried is Ever17, which I think is godly. I'm currently playing Bible Black in the wee hours of the night out of boredom, I actually really like the concept of Black Magic and finding a book that gives power, but I dislike the art style that BB has, as well as the constant barrage of sex (Granted, I knew that it would be full of sex walking into it.) Any suggestions on what to try next?

Try Fate/stay night, it's awesome.
If you're going to play it, install this patch to increase the awesome.

Kara no Shoujo came out recently although i personally didn't like it because I like happy endings and even the best ending is hardly satisfying in that regard.
If you don't mind playing something that is only partially translated I'd recommend Maji de Watashi ni Koishinasai! (http://vndb.org/v1143) Yandere Translations has released a partial patch which covers the common route as well as 2 of the heroines. There working on a 3rd route now. (http://yandere.gray7.com/)

Edit: Actually in hindsight an ongoing translation is probably not the best recommendation for someone new to VNs. I'll think of something more appropriate and edit this again later in the mean time I'll agree with Fate/Stay Night

Edit 2: After actually taking a minute to read the thread there isn't really anything I would recommend to someone new that hasn't already been said. however I will say G-senjou no Maou (http://vndb.org/v211) is one of the best things I've read in ages.

Teclo wrote:until the inevitable twists at the very end where it's revealed that Character A is actually a robot, Character B is just the existential remains of a dead guy, Character C is a time traveller, Character D is the human personification of the 18th of January, etc, etc, insert typical trying-too-hard VN bullshit here

Um yeah, so you're still not really far into Cross Channel, right.

delta wrote:

Teclo wrote:until the inevitable twists at the very end where it's revealed that Character A is actually a robot, Character B is just the existential remains of a dead guy, Character C is a time traveller, Character D is the human personification of the 18th of January, etc, etc, insert typical trying-too-hard VN bullshit here

Um yeah, so you're still not really far into Cross Channel, right.

Without going into spoilers I'd say you could argue 2 of those examples actually were in Cross Channel from what I remember.

Problem when it comes to VNs is most of the time you have to choose between having a garbage cliche story, or a unique story with really poor presentation/dull writing. You mentioned Ever17. Ever17 had a decent story and characters and suffered from poor presentation/writing(the pacing was bad, a lot of the dialogue was wooden, etc). Cross Channel suffers from the opposite: The story is inane, the characters are painfully generic, and every single plot twist is really just a deus ex machina with no explanation put forth and no background or foreshadowing. The game manages to be, largely, eventful and fast paced compared to a lot of VNs, but it ends up putting a shiny wrapper on poor goods.

Honestly I think Muv Luv is the almost the only VN I've played that had good presentation AND a good story. Utawarerumono is the only other one I can think of offhand.

On a less negative note, play this:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-stanley-parable

Maybe a little bit pretentious, but hey. Best OELVN ever and not even trying to be one.

delta wrote:

Teclo wrote:until the inevitable twists at the very end where it's revealed that Character A is actually a robot, Character B is just the existential remains of a dead guy, Character C is a time traveller, Character D is the human personification of the 18th of January, etc, etc, insert typical trying-too-hard VN bullshit here

Um yeah, so you're still not really far into Cross Channel, right.

Nope. It feels like I've been reading it for over 5 hours but it's probably only been a very, very slow hour. Reminds me of how it took me around a month of reading Ever 17 to get to a point shortly after it's revealed that the painfully generic hostess character is actually an AI hologram, at which point I thought "Oh boy here we go again - a handful of cookie-cutter characters with no soul but with some dumb, one-note back story, like most other "good" VNs ever". It really feels like the "serious" VNs just go "Okay, let's have a red-haired tsundere, and after 55 hours of reading it's revealed that she's actually the ghost of Louis XIII who lives inside a Japanese lunch box - what do you think guys?" and then he realises he's alone, so just solemnly claps himself.

I guess I'll try and make the most of this little rant by turning it into a question; what about VNs with a more adventurous feel to them (particularly when this is backed up by the ability to explore and/or make a lot of choices)? It needn't be in a fantasy setting, though I guess that's the most likely outcome. It seems VNs either do nonsensical, forced philosophising that always comes down to someone actually being a concept, a ghost, a robot or something, or wacky and irreverent but ultimately throwaway stuff like Rance or Big Bang Age. So what about something that actually has a good story and interesting setting? I'm reading Inganock at the moment and Katahane, which both seem good, and one of my all-time favourites is Nocturnal Illusion, based purely on the atmosphere and sense of time and place. Any more like that you can recommend? Anything like Game of Thrones with a tsundere Jaime Lannister and kuudere Edwina Stark?

I wish I had an answer, I really do - tell me if you find one. The only thing that comes to mind is MuvLuv Alternative, which is supposed to be pretty epic. But I'm soured on the whole franchise because MuvLuv Extra was stunningly bad, I hate the character designs, and I've been badly burned by hyped VNs before, so I'm not motivated to try it.

delta wrote:I wish I had an answer, I really do - tell me if you find one. The only thing that comes to mind is MuvLuv Alternative, which is supposed to be pretty epic. But I'm soured on the whole franchise because MuvLuv Extra was stunningly bad, I hate the character designs, and I've been badly burned by hyped VNs before, so I'm not motivated to try it.

MuvLuv Extra was stunningly bad on purpose. The entire point of MuvLuv Extra was to be stunningly bad. In fact, if you look at the official site for it the entire thing talks about it being a "Super cliche school eroge" or something along those lines and how "We know how much you guys love linear routes with nothing to think about except how to land the chick, so we made Muv Luv even more that way!" and etc.

The whole thing is actually a giant joke being played on the people who bought it. Once you get through Extra it improves drastically, I really recommend toughing it out.

Also recommend not skipping through it. A lot of the stupid inanity in Extra actually becomes relevant later on and IMO a large part of what makes the rest of the game so good is how the cliche slice of life cheesy comedy of Extra and the simplicity of it contrast with Unlimited and Alternative.

Also Teclo I think the real problem with plots like that imo, isn't that they pull out these random off the wall backgrounds. I think what's awful about it is that they do that, and don't even make the backgrounds relevant to the character's personality and their development.

It's kinda why I can't stand Key VNs at all. Every single damn character is some moe blob with a background that has no actual relevance to their character in any way, and doesn't actually get any development or resolution before the end. It feels like you could just ad-lib their background and get much the same result.

On the topic of Ever17 (which I admit does have the problems Qeanyin said), I can recommend Remember11 ~The Age of Infinity~, which is of the same series. It's pretty good, I'd say the characters/dialogues are better and mind screw is thicker.

OneMore wrote:On the topic of Ever17 (which I admit does have the problems Qeanyin said), I can recommend Remember11 ~The Age of Infinity~, which is of the same series. It's pretty good, I'd say the characters/dialogues are better and mind screw is thicker.

Yeah Remember11 is a lot better, although the ending leaves way too many plot threads unanswered. The actual character development and pacing is much smoother though.

Aero wrote:Hey, I've read through all of this thread but I'm still at a loss for what to try out next!

Obviously I've played and loved the hell out of the Act 1 Demo for KS, but besides that the only VN I've tried is Ever17, which I think is godly. I'm currently playing Bible Black...

Any suggestions on what to try next?

Presumably from what you've said, you haven't tried these yet, and so it bears re-mentioning; Narcissu was a short and touching piece which you may like. Also True Remembrance which is easily the best vn I've yet seen and I enjoyed immensely.

Digital: A Love Story and "don't take it personally babe it just ain't your story" were very creative and different, particularly impressive that the latter was completed for NaNoRenO. It's quite clever in a number of ways, some of which I only fully realised after playing all the endings/reading discussions on it.

I can't remember if it's been mentioned but I really enjoyed "the answer" which can be found on the Katawa Shoujo blog. It's short but highly entertaining and humorous (the "path" that leads to the best ending, in particular, made me laugh uncontrollably).