Katawa Shoujo Forums

Sohtak wrote:

AussieInquisitor wrote:

Sohtak wrote:
Would it be considered cliche to make a fan-fic where hisao DOESN'T die after having kid/s/?

Far from it, Sohtak.

Ok, so it's a guarantee that Hisao would likely have a few years or so taken off of his life due to his condition, and that said condition has affected several aspects of how he should go about himself. But I don't think that could (or should) stop anyone showing him and his girlfriend/wife/friend-for-life-under-the-same-roof living their lives together. So I personally don't think that writing a story depicting them living happy, relatively normal lives would be considered cliche.

See that's what I was hoping to hear.

With all these related art-works depicting Hisao birthing a child with Emi/Lilly/Rin and then dying I was like bullshit man. His heart may be weak but he's a strong mother fucker! He deserves a story where there is at least some happyness in his life. (Outside of the original KS story)

The one thing is, what people deserve and what people get... don't tend to match up as much as we'd like.

Disclaimer: I do NOT want to trivialize homosexuality as a trait or the current social situation surrounding it. I am simply expressing my opinion.

dewelar wrote:Yes, if Shizune was a completely different person than who she is, she and Misha could be a great couple. In other news, the sky is blue.

For me, homosexuality, as a trait, functions a bit like someone's favorite fruit. It has no overall affect on how I treat them as a person. Sure, if a homosexual I wasn't interested were to hit on me, I'd simply say I wasn't interested. The exact same as if a heterosexual hit on me and I wasn't interested. Saying that homosexuality changes someone's psyche so deeply is a bit overboard, and I'd venture completely wrong. I've never met a homosexual who I could tell by looking at them they were homosexual, (aside from perhaps one who was being very flaunty about it, but I don't count that because it's similar to the douchebros who talk about who they canoodled recently.) it's always been a bit of a conversational reveal, (what can I say, I have that effect on people) but it has never affected my opinion or thoughts about the person. Do you assume that homosexuality is like a switch that switches Shizune to Misha? Or perhaps that it degrades someone past the point of being the same human they would've been otherwise? Is someone any less attractive (physically and personality-wise) if you find out their homosexual (I realize if that's not your thing, it can be, but a nice, hot, heterosexual person is no different from a nice, hot, homosexual person.) I may be reading too much into your quote, but it seems strange that you'd make that comment on the subject.

Disclaimer: Don't start a war about homosexuality again. I just wanted to point out the comment.

Broomhead wrote:I just wanted to point out the comment.

I note that you said that Shizune and Misha would be a good couple. But I don't think most of the rest of us were focusing on their sexuality; the majority of comments here are about the aspects of their relationship that we can glean from the primary source (KS itself, in various routes) and our opinions of that. This may include Misha's perspective, but apart from Hisao's, that's the only one where this point arises. I've written Shizune x Misha myself, if you're wondering.

I know, but the quote was from a post directly about homosexuality on shizunes part. Perhaps I'm over reacting and/or creating shadows where there aren't any, but my point stands and I feel it was justified. Of course, if dewelar comes out and says that wasn't the intention, I'll be embarassed beyond words for making it an issue and assaulting them, but I'll take the risk.

(You sick monster I read AtD. I teared up just as bad as actual KS. Great writing and story telling. )

Sohtak wrote:I've noticed in alot of fanart they seem to depict Emi/Lilly/Rin etc as mom's talking to their children and then they mention something that reminds them of Hisao and they say "Mommy why are you crying?"

I fucking love those
Not only is the art great, but those added dialogue pieces (these were added in after colouring and not in the original images, might I point out) are so forced it sounds like they're pulled right out of a B-Movie.

"Imma touch yo face, mum, just like dad used t- EY GURL WHY YOU CRYING"
It's as if Mother-Lilly has some form of Pavlovian response to her face being touched, that makes her cry immediately after.

Broomhead wrote:I know, but the quote was from a post directly about homosexuality on shizunes part. Perhaps I'm over reacting and/or creating shadows where there aren't any, but my point stands and I feel it was justified. Of course, if dewelar comes out and says that wasn't the intention, I'll be embarassed beyond words for making it an issue and assaulting them, but I'll take the risk.

(You sick monster I read AtD. I teared up just as bad as actual KS. Great writing and story telling. )

I think you make your point, regardless of context. It has its own validity. But I did find it unusually strongly expressed as a response to dewelar's comment…

(Thank you for the compliment — but why is 'monster' the choice of descriptor for so many readers? )

brythain wrote:(Thank you for the compliment — but why is 'monster' the choice of descriptor for so many readers? )

"Rommel, you Magnificent Bastard, I read your book!" - Patton

"Brythain, you Magnificent Bastard, I read your fanfic!" - AtD reader

(Nope. No TV Trope link.)

Munchenhausen wrote:It's as if Mother-Lilly has some form of Pavlovian response to her face being touched, that makes her cry immediately after.

Or as if being reminded of her dead husband makes her sad or something

Atario wrote:

Munchenhausen wrote:It's as if Mother-Lilly has some form of Pavlovian response to her face being touched, that makes her cry immediately after.

Or as if being reminded of her dead husband makes her sad or something

Nah, that wouldn't be it. Why does she miss someone dear to her if she's blind?

Munchenhausen wrote:

Atario wrote:

Munchenhausen wrote:It's as if Mother-Lilly has some form of Pavlovian response to her face being touched, that makes her cry immediately after.

Or as if being reminded of her dead husband makes her sad or something

Nah, that wouldn't be it. Why does she miss someone dear to her if she's blind?

Right? She couldn't even hear him.

Broomhead wrote:Disclaimer: I do NOT want to trivialize homosexuality as a trait or the current social situation surrounding it. I am simply expressing my opinion.

dewelar wrote:Yes, if Shizune was a completely different person than who she is, she and Misha could be a great couple. In other news, the sky is blue.

For me, homosexuality, as a trait, functions a bit like someone's favorite fruit. It has no overall affect on how I treat them as a person.

As it should be. I was just pointing out that if you take Shizune and change her established sexual orientation, it would make her a completely different person on a very basic level. Unlike one's favorite fruit, one's sexual orientation informs large swaths of a person's thoughts, feelings and experiences. It would thereby change the dynamic of the Shizune-Misha relationship from day one in ways that we cannot foresee.

However, I'll try it as a thought experiment. If everything else about Shizune was exactly the same except her sexual orientation, could they then make a good couple? I still don't think so. First of all, Misha tends to put Shizune on a pedestal, and such relationships generally don't work very well. At times, Misha comes off rather pitiful, in that she thinks that if she's just nice enough or does or says the right things, that Shizune will decide that she's worthy of her love. If you translate that into an actual relationship between the two, it's not only an unhealthy attitude, it would turn Shizune off big time. Shizune seems to be attracted to people who challenge her, and if Misha is too obsequious I don't think Shizune would consider dating her. Also, given Misha's relatively passive nature, sooner or later (as brythain puts it in AtD) she'd Australia.

Thinking more about it...if anything, I could see a lesbian Shizune being attracted to someone like Rika.

dewelar wrote:However, I'll try it as a thought experiment. If everything else about Shizune was exactly the same except her sexual orientation, could they then make a good couple? I still don't think so. First of all, Misha tends to put Shizune on a pedestal, and such relationships generally don't work very well. At times, Misha comes off rather pitiful, in that she thinks that if she's just nice enough or does or says the right things, that Shizune will decide that she's worthy of her love. If you translate that into an actual relationship between the two, it's not only an unhealthy attitude, it would turn Shizune off big time. Shizune seems to be attracted to people who challenge her, and if Misha is too obsequious I don't think Shizune would consider dating her. Also, given Misha's relatively passive nature, sooner or later (as brythain puts it in AtD) she'd Australia.

Thinking more about it...if anything, I could see a lesbian Shizune being attracted to someone like Rika.

This is why you'd have to let Shizune, in such a case, mellow and change over time so that not only her sexual orientation but other traits (and life experiences) would make her feel more kindly in a non-patronising way towards Misha. Shizune does respect friendship and loyalty, not only challenge. Also, there's a halfway point: Shizune could be bi. And the last alternative is that in some rare situations, sexual orientation, regardless, may not count so much any more.

I could see Shizune being more attracted to Hanako of all people, than to Misha. (I'm not shipping that, though, and I don't think she'd actually be attracted to Hanako. Just saying, even with all of Hanako's problems, she tries, unlike Misha, and I think Shizune can respect that more. And, even if Hanako's dependent on Lilly, she doesn't want to be.)

And, actually, I'm not certain that Shizune would be a very different person if she were a lesbian (well, your storyline would change things, but not all that much I think). She seems to be defined by her interactions with her family, to an extent... and Jigoro's lack of acceptance of her Deafness would probably translate very well into how he'd treat her coming out as a lesbian.

Now, you want awkward... if Shizune were a lesbian... I think she'd be incredibly attracted to Lilly. She'd never act on it for obvious reasons, and Lilly would be horrified by the idea on every level, but that would just add to the tension between them. And, Lilly's the person who made it her job to stand up to Shizune every time...

brythain wrote:This is why you'd have to let Shizune, in such a case, mellow and change over time so that not only her sexual orientation but other traits (and life experiences) would make her feel more kindly in a non-patronising way towards Misha. Shizune does respect friendship and loyalty, not only challenge. Also, there's a halfway point: Shizune could be bi. And the last alternative is that in some rare situations, sexual orientation, regardless, may not count so much any more.

Well, sure, but I thought we were talking about around the time of the game, not 57 years later . And I agree, when one reaches a certain level of life experience, a relationship based on deep friendship rather than attraction is quite a nice thing, if not actively preferable .

bhtooefr wrote:And, actually, I'm not certain that Shizune would be a very different person if she were a lesbian (well, your storyline would change things, but not all that much I think).

Actually, I could see lesbian!Shizune being even more driven, perhaps to the point of not even accepting being sent to Yamaku and having a greater need to prove herself in the "outside world". As for my twist, yeah, Mayoi being either lesbian or bi herself would probably have meant less change rather than more.

bhtooefr wrote:Now, you want awkward... if Shizune were a lesbian... I think she'd be incredibly attracted to Lilly.

Yes. Yes she would.

I'll just note that I'm weird, in that I'm wired such that I actually can't feel any sort of strong attraction unless the seeds of friendship have already been sown.

Like, I can recognize that I'd be especially physically attracted to someone that I see, but without the prerequisites for any sort of real attraction being in place (that is, the emotional connection), I won't feel any attraction towards that woman.