Katawa Shoujo Forums

Heh, looks like Hanako's eagerness to be competitive has made her a bit paranoid. She needs a break. Lilly's right that she can't even really say anything to her in that state.

To be fair though, Yoshimura replying to the call like that was really unfortunately timed.

e: It really feels like Hanako's currently more focused on becoming a 'capable equal' (or proving to already be just that) instead of finding value in having a relationship with Hisao; then again, it's not a black and white situation obviously and Hanako does and more specifically did seem to love him genuinely. Lack of maturity and the quite frankly abnormal circumstances played their part though.

Blasphemy wrote:
e: It really feels like Hanako's currently more focused on becoming a 'capable equal' (or proving to already be just that) instead of finding value in having a relationship with Hisao; then again, it's not a black and white situation obviously and Hanako does and more specifically did seem to love him genuinely. Lack of maturity and the quite frankly abnormal circumstances played their part though.

I certainly understand her feelings in that sense. Nobody wants to be someone's last pick, or their only choice. After dealing with so much rejection and internalized hatred, it would be impossible to feel like someone was with you because you were all that was left. You'd want them to be able to look through a crowd and only see you. Not wonder what things would be like if they could do better. So she needs to beat as many people as she can. She needs to know that of all Hisao's interests, she was his first choice, only after seeing everyone else around. I know how silly this can sound, and very... almost numeric about something that really cant be categorized as such, but it only comes after a life of feeling like you arent good enough. The need for someone to see you as not only good enough, but the best out of a bunch of other people that you personally saw as much better than you. Balah im rambling.

On a more serious note (though I do stand by my prediction ), this chapter really seems to throw things out of Hanako's favor. To think that I was complaining about Emi last chapter, only for Hanako to be so petulant this time around. There is a lot of deep-seated paranoia within her, and her apparent inability to trust Hisao and Lilly only really seems to confirm what the latter of them said. It was harsh, but it's true - I don't think Hanako really knows what she's getting herself into, or why she really wants what she wants. Was this what Miss Yumi was cryptically hinting at?

Anyhow, I am starting to lean towards Team Lilly again, if only because of Hisao's inane suggestion that he doesn't want to be the same person that he was when he had dated her before. (Then don't be, duh.)

Even though this I've only used this bathroom a few times, I already know I will miss it.

One word too many I think.

I think Lilly has a point there. Relationships are built on trust, and if Hanako is not willing to trust Hisao that far, any relationship she might have with him would be kind of abusive.

Their entire interaction felt this way, to be honest, and I'm getting vibes of Sisterhood's whole Hanako tells Lilly exactly what she wants to hear to make the problem go away thing.

What scene exactly are you talking about?

What scene exactly are you talking about?

The scene where Hanako is merely telling Lilly what she thinks the latter wants to hear (at least until Lilly starts digging deeper) is the scene in Chapter 17 where Lilly confronts Hanako in Hisao's room in an attempt to reconcile before her departure to Scotland.

As always, I'll start by thanking everyone for the kind words and the interesting discussion! Also, I see a couple of new / long-absent names in the comments, which is always good to see .

azumeow wrote:Wow, you really are a sadistic monster. Not quite to Brythain levels yet, but....I can see you getting there.

Whether it was meant that way or not, I'm taking that as a compliment .

bhtooefr wrote:At least it sunk in for Hanako just how badly she fucked up, but something feels entirely wrong here, and I can't put my finger on what it is. Their entire interaction felt this way, to be honest, and I'm getting vibes of Sisterhood's whole Hanako tells Lilly exactly what she wants to hear to make the problem go away thing.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, but if you mean what I think you mean, then you're definitely in the right ballpark. I'll note that this story does, by necessity, deal with some of the same themes as Sisterhood, just from a different angle.

I do have this strange feeling that this isn't Hisao's story, it's Emi's, though.

I've said before that this story has more than one protagonist, and it doesn't belong to any one of them individually. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that it's not even one story -- it's several stories that weave in and out of each other, and affect the direction each one takes.

brythain wrote:(Analysis to follow.)

Edit: I think I'll wait for Chapter 50.

Dash it all!

Markus Ramikin wrote:Well, this is all entertaining and rather well written - I've enjoyed the earlier parts more, but still paying attention.

Well, first of all, thanks for hanging in with me. I agree that the story as it is doesn't have the same feel as it did early on, and I can understand how that might have turned some people off. You could say that the story I wanted to tell changed with the writing, probably because I discovered more things I wanted it to address.

Still, I hope you have an actual resolution in mind, and not going to go for an endless soap opera.

Yes, I do have a resolution in mind, and I'm still on course for the ending to be somewhere around Chapter 60, give or take a couple chapters. If I do continue this story beyond that, it will be along the lines of what Hoitash has been doing with his various continuities.

LilyKitsune wrote:Nobody wants to be someone's last pick, or their only choice. After dealing with so much rejection and internalized hatred, it would be impossible to feel like someone was with you because you were all that was left. You'd want them to be able to look through a crowd and only see you. Not wonder what things would be like if they could do better. So she needs to beat as many people as she can. She needs to know that of all Hisao's interests, she was his first choice, only after seeing everyone else around. I know how silly this can sound, and very... almost numeric about something that really cant be categorized as such, but it only comes after a life of feeling like you arent good enough. The need for someone to see you as not only good enough, but the best out of a bunch of other people that you personally saw as much better than you. Balah im rambling.

There's a lot of truth in this. For Hanako, it manifests in the whole "don't you dare step aside on my account" that she's now said to both Emi and Lilly. The question is how it plays out from here.

Mirage_GSM wrote:

Even though this I've only used this bathroom a few times, I already know I will miss it.

One word too many I think.

Fixed, thanks!

I think Lilly has a point there. Relationships are built on trust, and if Hanako is not willing to trust Hisao that far, any relationship she might have with him would be kind of abusive.

At the very least, there would be a long road ahead of them. I think this is one of the reasons why Hanako's route ends where it does, because you're left with the hope that this, too, can be overcome.

dewelar wrote:

LilyKitsune wrote:Nobody wants to be someone's last pick, or their only choice. After dealing with so much rejection and internalized hatred, it would be impossible to feel like someone was with you because you were all that was left. You'd want them to be able to look through a crowd and only see you. Not wonder what things would be like if they could do better. So she needs to beat as many people as she can. She needs to know that of all Hisao's interests, she was his first choice, only after seeing everyone else around. I know how silly this can sound, and very... almost numeric about something that really cant be categorized as such, but it only comes after a life of feeling like you arent good enough. The need for someone to see you as not only good enough, but the best out of a bunch of other people that you personally saw as much better than you. Balah im rambling.

There's a lot of truth in this. For Hanako, it manifests in the whole "don't you dare step aside on my account" that she's now said to both Emi and Lilly. The question is how it plays out from here.

Mhm. Not the most constructive way of explaining it to her friends, but I really do understand that desire. I hope she can realize what her own needs are and explain them better. Im certain Lilly would understand. Emi seems to have. She's more competitive by nature, though, so I think she was really close to that mark already. I could also see Hanako getting worse and escalating the problem with Lilly. It's possible she harbored some deep feelings of jealousy which could explode in a most unfortunate way. I truly hope she doesn't, and that she calms herself and fixes it all. To make a more healthy conclusion than her route, where she can be understood by her friends, and take real steps to becoming stronger, supported by her being chosen for all she is.

Goddamn my projecting.

dewelar wrote:

I think Lilly has a point there. Relationships are built on trust, and if Hanako is not willing to trust Hisao that far, any relationship she might have with him would be kind of abusive.

At the very least, there would be a long road ahead of them. I think this is one of the reasons why Hanako's route ends where it does, because you're left with the hope that this, too, can be overcome.

Now I have the vision that the beta route where Hanako went cray cray, it happened after her good end.

Great chapter, though I fear Hanako might be getting a bit over the board with her paranoia. Still rooting for Lilly, though I know Iwanako will win with some sort of an insane twist of fate.

I really didn't expect Hanako to blow up like that. I understand what Lily was trying to say and it was the right thing to say but I think she should have chosen her words more carefully given the state Hanako was in. Hanako also seems like she is at a point in which she does not trust anyone anymore. It also seems like she is more interested in the other girls "challenging" her for Hisao with everything they got more than actually winning Hisao herself. At this point Emi and Lily are trying to be considerate of everyone and not wanting to stomp all over someone's feelings just to get what they want. Its as if Hanako is blind to that.

Anyway thanks for the great chapter Dewelar. It was definitely worth the wait and I can't wait for the next.

Mahorfeus wrote:On a more serious note (though I do stand by my prediction ), this chapter really seems to throw things out of Hanako's favor. To think that I was complaining about Emi last chapter, only for Hanako to be so petulant this time around. There is a lot of deep-seated paranoia within her, and her apparent inability to trust Hisao and Lilly only really seems to confirm what the latter of them said. It was harsh, but it's true - I don't think Hanako really knows what she's getting herself into, or why she really wants what she wants. Was this what Miss Yumi was cryptically hinting at?

Anyhow, I am starting to lean towards Team Lilly again, if only because of Hisao's inane suggestion that he doesn't want to be the same person that he was when he had dated her before. (Then don't be, duh.)

Going to agree here, I didnt really think she'd blow up against Lilly because of jealousy. We knew her being overly paranoid and not fully trusting Hisao but I think it was a bit too hard to go Misstep on Lilly, yes she has still feelings for Hisao but that ship has already sailed... for now.

I was kinda rooting for Hanako to "win" but idk if it will even work for her & Hisao now . At the least she has to try to fix her relationship with Lilly after she realises what she has done.

Just as I'm bringing the cup to my lips, I hear the door to the tea room open once again. I curse myself for forgetting to lock it, and again upon hearing the voice of the person behind it.

"Lilly? I didn't expect to find you here."

I sigh heavily, knowing that my penance is an ongoing one. "Good afternoon, Hisao."

I hate these fucking cliffhangers...I don't think I can wait two to four weeks.

Eesh, looks like my Hanako ship took a torpedo. I'm with Lilly, Hisao has always and ever been a gentleman, and Hanako assuming he ditched the lot of them for a one night stand borders on idiot-ball. Of course, people do funny things when they're as stressed as she is, so I'll just have to hope for the best. It seemed like yesterday that Hanako was an emotional anchor for a distraught Emi. Now Emi is better than she's been in weeks and Hanako's a wreck.

I wanted to post a note to quickly address those who are skeptical of Hanako's behavior here.

Obviously, Hanako's stress level has been getting ratcheted up these past few days.

- Lilly coming back
- The revelation that Lilly still loves Hisao and the ensuing confrontation
- Lilly disappearing
- Hisao saying he's going to stop running
- The ensuing confrontation with Hisao over her "white knighting"
- Yoshimura answering Hisao's phone
- And finally, this bit with Lilly

All of which has happened in the course of six days. Yeah, Hanako's grown quite a bit, but she still has a boatload of insecurities, and she's got major trust issues that she's only just begun to reckon with. Add to that that, during the course of this story, she's been having nightmares about Lilly taking Hisao away from her, and...well, you get the picture .

Hope that helps make things a bit clearer.

Blank Mage wrote:Eesh, looks like my Hanako ship took a torpedo. I'm with Lilly, Hisao has always and ever been a gentleman, and Hanako assuming he ditched the lot of them for a one night stand borders on idiot-ball. Of course, people do funny things when they're as stressed as she is, so I'll just have to hope for the best. It seemed like yesterday that Hanako was an emotional anchor for a distraught Emi. Now Emi is better than she's been in weeks and Hanako's a wreck.

It's easy to see it from that view, given what you know as the reader, both in what actually happened, and what Hisao's internal thoughts are on it. Imagine that from the outside view. Known promiscuous girl answering guy's phone in the early morning, clearly hungover/waking up from having slept at least near him. Given the dorms and bed situation, that likely means same bed. Cmon now.