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Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:11 pm
by Zykes
Forever_ambivalent wrote:
Just because it exists doesn't mean it should be made worse. Rather than giving up on trying to fix discrimination problems you should try to stop the discrimination. And no it doesn't create a place to get away from it. When white people were separated from black people it certainly did not help black people get away from discrimination ( rather the opposite). Creating a school for physically disabled people would be doing the same thing.
The best way to get people to stop discriminating against them is by getting them to realize that physically disabled people are no different to them. They just have a few problems. Seperating them would show that they are entirely separate people and is clearly not the way to go.
Also I don't see how this Is making a better environment for them. Rather it is secluding them from people without disabilities for no good reason. Any decent school can have all the equipment necessary and help physically disabled people live their life as ordinary citizens. For cases like arrhythmia there are pacemakers and ICD's alongside medicine and careful care from teachers to make sure nothing bad happens. They are as safe as they can be.
Also what if it is an specially good school? This is already a big problem with religious and gender based schools. Its quite unfair to people who aren't in that group. And its very common in the UK (some of the best schools are religion/gender specific).
I haven't met a single physically disabled person who wants to be secluded in such a way. It all seems too similar to the apartheid system and that is not good.
I do agree that Seperating is not the way to go, however, I'd call it idealistic at best if there is any belief that Discrimination can ever completely disappear. Not that I am in any way saying it shouldn't, but it is Human nature.
It exists at the basic core of things (Race, Gender, Religion, Homeland, sexuality, etc) and even on the most trivial of things (Which sport teams people like, area a person is born in, a preference of video game console, etc) I can't imagine where at one level or another that a person can't find discrimination. It would be better to honestly teach and brace people how to endure against it, rather than attempt to remove discrimination from others. (As if trying to use a bucket to remove sand from a beach.)
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:24 pm
by Forever_ambivalent
That doesn't mean I'm not going go against discrimination. Sure it will always exist but you can at the very least try to weather it down as much as possible.
Rather than attacking people for thinking a redo of the aparthaid system for disabled people is bad, you guys should try to prevent discrimination.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:30 pm
by Potato
Forever_ambivalent wrote:Just because it exists doesn't mean it should be made worse.
Well, it's a good thing that it's not made worse by this then.
When whites were separated from blacks, it absolutely did give them a place to get away by removing the people who would trouble them. But that's rather irrelevant as you're comparing a school designed for the explicit purpose of benefiting the disabled via sympathetic staff and peers and specialized medical equipment to an entire nation segregated for the explicit purpose of keeping the inferior colored folk away from superior whites whenever possible (to use a racist's perspective) and funneling only the most inferior resources toward said colored establishments. Entirely different scenarios
by far.
Also, it's hinted Misha transferred due to bullying. She is not bullied at Yamaku as far as we see. Ergo, it is indeed a place where she gets away. The same basic reasoning can be applied to any such school and its students, fictional or otherwise.
EDIT: ...Did you just reference apartheid, a hostile racist system enforced by a national government that
forcibly segregated people and led to numerous bloody acts of violence, as if it was a legitimate comparison to a school for the disabled designed with no hostile intent or malice that is not government-mandated or forced on unwilling students?
We're done here.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:38 pm
by brythain
Potato wrote:We're done here.
This is what happens when people confuse legitimate resource allocation and bias-based discrimination. Our acquaintance appears to not realize that 'Katawa Shoujo Forums' is discriminatory by that definition, as is any label at all. A truly insane argument.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:39 pm
by Sohtak
Man...Robin Williams died today and now we are talking about THIS on the KS forums.
It's a weird monday..
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:54 pm
by Steinherz
Sohtak wrote:Man...Robin Williams died today and now we are talking about THIS on the KS forums.
It's a weird monday..
Very weird.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:09 pm
by Oddball
Here's something I found that I thought was worth sharing.
http://snegidhi.com/lifestyle/real-moti ... atima.html
It's a series of pictures of a young married couple. She has no legs and he has no arms.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:16 pm
by Potato
That is ridiculously heartwarming. Good for them.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:20 pm
by Denabu
Megumeru wrote:Denabu wrote:I posted about a month ago about re-reading some paths in this because I missed it so much even after reading multiple other VNs. (Around page 13)
I just finished Hanako and Lilly's paths again. I love these stories so much, the best part is the moral of it all. It's given at the end of Lilly's. The fact that he had a terrible past where he lost all his friends, his first love, almost his second, he felt like he was falling behind everyone. None of it matters because if it didn't happen he wouldn't be where he was that day. Walking hand in hand with his one true love. Might seem cliche to some, but man do I eat it up. Now on to different VNs!
You like something FEELs heavy?
Then dig up KEY's work. Dig up EVERYTHING. (Tomoyo After is a plus too)
Will do! Took me a while to check back, just moved into a new place lol. I'm reading G Senjō no Maō (Devil on the G-string, it's speaking of the violin string, not a g-string) atm but I'll check those out after.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:38 am
by Atario
Armless dude's rockin' the long hair. That's dedication. I got tired of dealing with mine when I tried it, and I
have both my hands…
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:48 am
by Zarys
It's cute.
(It's funny because before KS, I would have found it a bit weird, if still comforting)
Munchenhausen wrote:Nothing wrong with what you said, Zarys, I just love how blatant you were with it
You and d2r are right, it's quite a valid point rarely considered.
A lot of people seem to assume that because they self-insert themself into a fanfic they become irresistable in their waifu's eyes. Who knows, Hanako might think your disability (assuming your OC goes Yamaku too) is too much for even her, she may have feelings for someone else... hell, she may even think you're just an ugly fucker
(but that being said, when you're more disfigured than Mah Buddy Keith you can't be too choosy).
I like to see how many self-insert fanfics I can find where the OC is transferred from America or the UK to Japan for no real reason, and then reimagine these romances with an appalling language barrier
I'm no sure for the fact that she could be pushed back by a disability, it would be a bit hypocritical...
But she is still pretty even if she don't admit it and has necessarily taste in boys, So she might not be attracted by all those who are nice to her.
I think an attitude similar to Hisao give a great opportunity to become friend with her, but that love is not guaranteed.
On the other hand, the meeting between Hisao and Hanako is not really love at first sight and I don't really believe in the "This is an immediate chemistry of pheromones, otherwise it will never work", so I remain fairly neutral, I have no reason to say that it would not work, but no reason to say that everything would go as well as with Hisao.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:33 am
by SpunkySix
D'aaw, together they make a whole person, inside and out! Emi and Rin would be proud.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:54 am
by Guest Poster
On the other hand, the meeting between Hisao and Hanako is not really love at first sight and I don't really believe in the "This is an immediate chemistry of pheromones, otherwise it will never work", so I remain fairly neutral, I have no reason to say that it would not work, but no reason to say that everything would go as well as with Hisao.
Nevertheless, it's strongly suggested in the VN that Hanako developed a crush on Hisao extremely quickly, maybe even as early as the first act.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:06 am
by Zarys
Guest Poster wrote:On the other hand, the meeting between Hisao and Hanako is not really love at first sight and I don't really believe in the "This is an immediate chemistry of pheromones, otherwise it will never work", so I remain fairly neutral, I have no reason to say that it would not work, but no reason to say that everything would go as well as with Hisao.
Nevertheless, it's strongly suggested in the VN that Hanako developed a crush on Hisao extremely quickly, maybe even as early as the first act.
A quick crush is not the same as "sudden pheromones, instant love", I think his way of being seduced her at least as much as his physical attraction and Hisao seems just average.
I don't really bought this idea of falling in love without reasons, at least I've never seen it. (ok there is physical attraction that is a fluke, but true love seems to happen with the fact of knowing the other)
Although the emotional chemistry may not work, because we are not Hisao and she does not necessarily would like us and perhaps several would not love her in the real life even if they think she is a good person; it is not in one direction.
And it is clear that if it works, it's because they have much in common, are good to each other,ect...and not something so superficial.
(And seriously,
if Hisao was superficial, why would he chose the only girl with a physical defect ?)
When I make this remark "Even if Hanako was real, why she would love you ?" I really don't think about the attractiveness of his fans.
Re: Random KS Discussion
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:07 am
by bhtooefr
It was almost certainly trolling, but... From
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t ... 56#p184656:
TheHivemind wrote:And is Shizune already hot for Hisao fairly early in Act 1 (i.e. pre-festival) or is it all about getting him on the Student Council?
All the ladies want to ride Hisao like a Harley down a stretch of bad road from day one, except for Rin.