Katawa Shoujo Forums

Brogurt wrote:Asking for advice.

I have a lot of respect for you for asking that question. Partly because it's a difficult question to grapple, but mostly because, more than that, it's an even more difficult question to ask. Unfortunately, there's only one answer to it: Man up and write anyway. This isn't just about Hanako fanfiction. It's not even only about writing period. It's about anything you'll ever want to do, because the sad, cold truth about life is that whatever it is you want to do, there will always be somebody out there who can do whatever it is you're aiming to achieve better. But you know what? Fuck them. That's not to say you shouldn't give them credit where their credit is due. In fact, you should respect them for a job well done. It is saying that no matter how many people you see out there who you think are kicking your ass and leaving you lying out in a ditch on the side of the interstate, you get back on your feet and say, "That's good. I can't do that yet. But Goddammit, I'm going to give it everything I've got anyway." And then you do.

There's plenty of advice people can give you to become a better writer, but this isn't a writing problem. This one is all on you. And it's a bitch of a lesson. I wish I could say it was one that clicks and suddenly sinks in. I wish it was one that, after this thread, you never have to ask yourself again. It's not. You and everybody else here are going to be grappling with it the rest of your life, with anything and everything you dedicate yourself to. If you're questioning whether there's somebody out there that can write a better story than you can, don't bother thinking too hard on it--there is. But who cares? I've read some of your work. I liked it. You have what it takes to write a good story. Will it be the best on the site? I don't know. I don't even know how you would begin to measure that, if you even could. But if you could measure it, it still wouldn't matter. The only question you should ask yourself when writing is, "Did I give it absolutely everything I had to give when I wrote this story?" If you did, you succeeded, regardless of who else wrote some other fic on the site. Don't compare your worth to theirs. That's irrelevant. Just man up and write. If you gave it your all, you'll tell a good story. That's the only thing that matters.

I'm not saying don't read other people's stories. I'm not even saying don't compare your writing to theirs. You should. If you see a story that you think totally kicked your ass, read the Hell out of it. In fact, it should be at the top of your reading list. See what worked for them--see why their story was so good. Also look to see what didn't work. You can learn from their writing--sometimes lessons that you wouldn't have learned from your own. Do you think their story is better? Doesn't matter. Take what you learned from their story and make yours better. You may never be the best. I don't know if anybody ever will. But that doesn't stop you from being awesome. So man up and put your pen to paper. It's all on you from here on out.

I stand by what I said earlier about 20 chapters being a hell of a long read, but I don't believe that's all anymore. I think that part of me just doesn't want to read this fic because that part of me is scared that I'll end up realizing that I will never be able to make something as good as this, and that after after coming to that realization, my motivation to write KS fanfiction ever again will die.

"Oh, hey, Brogurt did something. Too bad it's already been done better and long ago."

I mean, I want to finish Familiar sooner or later. And I have more ideas lined up to be written as well. But even if I were to, say, shove that out just so I could potentially read this, I think that would be self-destructive.

You people are writers. You people are consumers. In relation to not just this fic, but all Hanako fanfiction -including my own-, is someone both capable and willing to give some words of advice or encouragement? I hate this feeling of inferiority. I hate how it's always threatening to bust into my conscience at any time, no matter how many walls I put up to try and keep it out.

Hell, even if nobody cares enough to respond, at least I managed to organize my feelings a little bit, and maybe we both know something about me and how I see fanfiction -mine and others- that we didn't know earlier.

Sorry if I'm killing anyone's mood with all this moping. Maybe I'll try to make it up with another story sooner or later.

I doubt the length is as much of a problem as you're making it out to be. Seeing that the only thing everyone here has in common is that they plowed through the sea of words that was Katawa Shoujo...well, this baby's extremely tiny by comparison.

Catgirl Kleptocracy said it much better than I ever could. I suppose it all comes down to the question why you write. Aspirations of being a writer or at least developing one's writing skills? Or simply having a story in the back of one's head that you think is worth sharing? Or seeking validation of one's abilities and self-esteem?

If it's the first...you're probably best off reading as much stuff that's well-received by others as possible to find out what others liked about those works and pick up whatever tricks of the trade you can spot. But that requires an objective and detached approach and turning it into a competition defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

If it's the second (this was my reason for writing this one up), then it's important to have enough pride in your own work so that YOU'RE satisfied with your story, regardless of whether it gets a lot of reactions or not.

If it's the third...the internet can be an unreliable place for that kind of thing. Putting one's self-esteem in a spot where the average wandering troll can crush it as his leisure for his own petty amusement; very risky business. It also ruins your experience when reading other fanfics, since instead of enjoying the experience, you're performing potential threat evaluations. And that's nobody's idea of a good time.

If you cannot help but see the activity in this forum folder as a giant competition, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to read other people's work (even if this story's not to your taste, you might feel upstaged by others at some point or another) OR post your own. (you'll feel disappointed if it doesn't get as many or the kind of reactions you're expecting) I can't give you advice on how to change to mindset 1 or 2...it's not exactly as easy as flipping a switch.

"Oh, hey, Brogurt did something. Too bad it's already been done better and long ago."

Logically speaking, you only run the risk of unintentionally copying me if you don't read this fic. That said...I bet most Hanako epilogues around here share at least SOME similarities.

By the way, I can't say I've read every post on this forum, but my impression so far has been that most people around here are far too civil to make callous comments like this.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I wanted to say that this story is really awesomesauce. Seriously, good work. Is it available on FanFiction.Net? I wanna favorite it. (Eh, it has some adult scenes, so probably not if you're actually obeying the TOS...)

Thanks. And no, I only posted it here.

Would kind of prefer thoughts/inner monologues to be in italics rather than parenthesis, though. That's the common method, so why not use it?

At this point, I don't think I'm gonna go through the whole beast and edit each and every single thought. It's simply too large a job for too little gain. But the parenthesis-thingie is noted.

Hey, write it anyways, if you want. I don't know if I'll actually get around to doing any of the fanfiction ideas I got, but just because someone else did it better already isn't a reason not to try. Especially with fanfiction. It's getting out your ideas, and seeing how they actually worked out, exploring things for a work, the work itself didn't. Besides, never try never improve. Hmmnn, guess after that speech I should do at least some of my own fanfiction ideas. But the important thing is to not get discoureged because someone else did it well first.

Some guy on TVTropes advertised this fan fiction as "This is literally the single greatest piece of Katawa Shoujo fanfic this troper has ever read. I can't describe it properly. Really, I can't. Just read it.". I read it. And made an account just to tell you that guy was right. It's not perfect, because nothing is perfect, but it made me feel the same way I felt when playing the game, and the last scene was truly touching. It deserves to be considered fuckin' canon, and it's definitely canon in my head. Well done, man.

The only thing I found kinda off is that Hisao seemed a bit too eager to make out/have sex with Hanako, almost as if he was somehow "forcing" her to do it.

Thanks for the kind words.

I guess Hisao was kinda eager, but I didn't think he was TOO eager. In Lilly's route, he and Lilly did it twice in 24 hours even though the poor guy just had a heart attack a few hours earlier. The dude obviously doesn't have a problem with his hormones. I did try to make certain to point out Hanako's limits were being respected...in the end it turned out that Hisao was more squeamish on Hanako's limits than she herself was.

I am, at times, responsible for very long, drawn out breakdowns of my feelings and shit like that. This isn't going to be one of those times, because I just don't think I have the faculties to analyze it right now.

What you wrote, and what I just experienced, was exquisite. It touched me just as much as the original Lilly and Hanako arcs did, and I think it really was the epilogue that I needed and that this story deserved. I'm glad you wrote this, and I'm glad you asked me to read it. I originally had my reservations about a story that wasn't by the original authors, and in the first few chapters I picked apart every little thing that seemed even slightly off. I've since rejected that notion, because the beauty of a story like Katawa Shoujo is that it continues to live in your heart and mind. What you've put together is a beautiful piece that I have seamlessly installed with the rest of the experience.

Man, I still have the feels. If you'll excuse me, I'vegottogodosomething.

If I ever get around to actually writing my Hanako Fanfiction, I think I'll break from tradition and have her be the one to initiate the second time.

Actually it's only on Hanako and Lily's routes that Hisao has troubles with his heart during sex. I guess he's just not getting enough exercise.

I am, at times, responsible for very long, drawn out breakdowns of my feelings and shit like that. This isn't going to be one of those times, because I just don't think I have the faculties to analyze it right now.

What you wrote, and what I just experienced, was exquisite. It touched me just as much as the original Lilly and Hanako arcs did, and I think it really was the epilogue that I needed and that this story deserved. I'm glad you wrote this, and I'm glad you asked me to read it. I originally had my reservations about a story that wasn't by the original authors, and in the first few chapters I picked apart every little thing that seemed even slightly off. I've since rejected that notion, because the beauty of a story like Katawa Shoujo is that it continues to live in your heart and mind. What you've put together is a beautiful piece that I have seamlessly installed with the rest of the experience.

Man, I still have the feels. If you'll excuse me, I'vegottogodosomething.

(Light Yagami voice) Exactly as planned.

Heh, actually the immediate urge to pick stuff apart is something I recognize and am guilty of myself at times . (even if it tends to diminish the enjoyment I get out of a story) That's kind of why I made the decision to post the whole story in one go rather than chapter for chapter one tiny bit at a time. My experience is that when the latter approach is taken, it's tempting for people to get too caught up in the details instead of keeping to the birdseye view of the plot. I was kinda hoping people'd be like "Eh, too much work nitpicking 18 chapters in a row...maybe I should just hang back and get on with the story." In the end, if something REALLY sticks out, people will remember it and bring it up afterwards.

Anyway, I'm happy you gave the story a chance and ended up enjoying it.

If I ever get around to actually writing my Hanako Fanfiction, I think I'll break from tradition and have her be the one to initiate the second time.

I'm not sure if you'd be truly breaking with tradition. I could swear there's at least one other Hanako epilogue out there (possibly more than one) that have Hanako initiate the second time and/or be on top in order to make the point that she's getting more confident. Personally, I didn't think that particular point needed to be made that badly. Hanako's a rather passive and subdued girl by nature after all. There were several other ways to show her taking more control of her life.

The idea I've got is that after their first time had so many problems, Hisao is afraid of hurting Hanako emotionally or physically again. Hanako is going to point out he's coddeling her again, and that he should just ask her if she wants to. I really should at least get the outline drawn up.

Yeah, lot of things to love for this work. It helps a lot that it feels like a natural progression for the route plotwise.

A bit off topic, but does anyone know where I can find a full sized version of Foxtrotzero's avatar?

The idea I've got is that after their first time had so many problems, Hisao is afraid of hurting Hanako emotionally or physically again. Hanako is going to point out he's coddeling her again, and that he should just ask her if she wants to. I really should at least get the outline drawn up.

Sounds a bit like the discussion the two had in chapter 9, where Hisao mentions he'd feel horrible if it was painful for Hanako again and Hanako points out that kind of pressure is only going to prevent her from relaxing, meaning it's only more likely to hurt, which makes Hisao less eager to give it a try etc, etc, etc...

Happy Hanako is found here, btw.

Guest Poster wrote:

If I ever get around to actually writing my Hanako Fanfiction, I think I'll break from tradition and have her be the one to initiate the second time.

I'm not sure if you'd be truly breaking with tradition. I could swear there's at least one other Hanako epilogue out there (possibly more than one) that have Hanako initiate the second time and/or be on top in order to make the point that she's getting more confident. Personally, I didn't think that particular point needed to be made that badly. Hanako's a rather passive and subdued girl by nature after all. There were several other ways to show her taking more control of her life.

The unfortunate situation is that, lets say it were Hanako and I, if she didn't somewhere find the confidence to initiate, I don't think it would ever happen. I'm this gentle-giant fellow who would be so paralyzingly afraid of doing anything she doesn't want that it would come to a sexual impasse.

Hanako is this great character because she looks and is extremely shy on the inside, but once you get past that she's actually a really normal (perhaps delicate, but nonetheless unbreakable) girl. And what's more, somewhere at her core, she does have the ability to be assertive. God help you if she finds it.

Guest Poster wrote:Happy Hanako is found here, btw.

Probably a good thing you beat me to it, I would have ended up reuploading it or something.

Somebody on TVTropes put up the theory that Drunk Hanako is closer to her original personality.

Actually I thought of something that's a little disturbing. Hanako states that the people who bullied her worst were her closest friends. Well that's pretty bad. But then I thought of something else. Is it possible that before the fire Hanako herself might have been a bully?

Negativedarke wrote:Somebody on TVTropes put up the theory that Drunk Hanako is closer to her original personality.

Actually I thought of something that's a little disturbing. Hanako states that the people who bullied her worst were her closest friends. Well that's pretty bad. But then I thought of something else. Is it possible that before the fire Hanako herself might have been a bully?

That doesn't seem extraordinarily likely. I doubt it would be related to the people she hung out with. Children that age are quick to change their alliances, and won't stop when they find something to make fun of. I've heard it's even more viscious with girls. When she became the burned girl that nobody wanted to hang out with, the people who used to be her friend no longer mattered. Everyone either made fun of her or just avoided her altogether, and her closest friends probably had to be the leaders of the group to show everyone that they no longer had anything to do with the creepy burned girl.

Like I said, young children are viscious, pack-minded animals, especially the girls.

FoxtrotZero wrote:

Negativedarke wrote:Somebody on TVTropes put up the theory that Drunk Hanako is closer to her original personality.

Actually I thought of something that's a little disturbing. Hanako states that the people who bullied her worst were her closest friends. Well that's pretty bad. But then I thought of something else. Is it possible that before the fire Hanako herself might have been a bully?

That doesn't seem extraordinarily likely. I doubt it would be related to the people she hung out with. Children that age are quick to change their alliances, and won't stop when they find something to make fun of. I've heard it's even more viscious with girls. When she became the burned girl that nobody wanted to hang out with, the people who used to be her friend no longer mattered. Everyone either made fun of her or just avoided her altogether, and her closest friends probably had to be the leaders of the group to show everyone that they no longer had anything to do with the creepy burned girl.

Like I said, young children are viscious, pack-minded animals, especially the girls.

In addition to that, another reason it's very unlikely Hanako "started it" is Hanako's misantropic attitude towards people in general. She doesn't trust people. She feels that if she allows herself to let people close enough, they'll just stab her in the back again. That, to me, feels like the result of a very genuine betrayal at the hands of those she truly trusted and that she did NOT see coming. This wouldn't be the case if Hanako had been a bully to those who ended up bullying her.

Hmmn, your right. Well it wasn't really a serious theory, just a horrible idea that creeped into my head.

No comments on Drunk Hanako? We need more drunk Hanako. One of the major things about being drunk is the lowering of inhibitions, and I think we get an interesting peek there when she's drunk of a side you'd never see of Hanako. Genuinly relaxed Hanako.