Katawa Shoujo Forums

BlackRockHanako wrote:

lolawesome wrote:I'm thinking more along the line of she's already pregnant

Oh gods, if Hanako was pregnant and only wanted to sleep with Hisao so she could pretend it was his...the delicious anger on the forums!

Good for Hanako, though - the true alpha douchebag spawn would be developing in her womb.

@nemz
A lot of that stuff you said is very true, but there's a thing or two I'd like to address

>the pill and condom deal
this was kind of meant to show that Hisao really can't trust her anymore. Technically, none of this is relevant to the plot from this point on, so I don't have much of a problem with telling you that she was on the pill for a LONG time. This included when she was only with Hisao, when she started cheating, when she got raped, and during Part 3. She is not pregnant with anyone's child, and was not planning on it. She just wanted to see if she could be entirely accepted by Hisao in part 3... and he ultimately couldn't trust her. He wasn't sure whether or not to believe that she actually wouldn't get pregnant, and he surely wasn't about to take her word on whether or not she had contracted any STDs.


>on inadequacy

Brogurt wrote:

BobBobberson wrote:Like the reason for cheating on Hisao to begin with: Moar, longer sex

That's a reason, yes, but I tried to make it clear in the first chapter that she also wanted to feel like she wasn't subhuman, and that she wasn't restricted to relationships with other subhumans (in this case, someone with a fucked up heart). After all, I'm certain it's no longer news to anybody that her disability wasn't her scars, but rather her psychological issues.

This is what I was trying to convey with the following lines, in Part 1

“It wasn't j-just the sex though. The feeling of being loved, being n-normal, being seen as an equal. I… I got addicted to it. I guess… if I’d just act like a n-normal person, I’d be t-treated like one. It was… l-like you always said… My s-scars don’t mean anything, and… they only hinder me if I l-let them…”

And Part 2

And I… like I told you… I felt like I d-deserved someone who w-would treat me as an equal… W-without having a heart c-condition…

I figured that if I were to put it into Act 3 as well, it would look like I was just continually trying to remind the reader that such was the case. Maybe the lines themselves were too inconspicuous and didn't stick; and if so, I would be willing to change some things to remedy that, but I obviously need feedback for that to happen (and at this point I think I already have enough, but I can't set my mind on what to do to fix it). Because, unsurprisingly, I can't read this the same way that someone else does.

>On the general responses

Well, gee, I was expecting the backlash to be immense at first, and then calm down later as things were explained... but it looks like it started out kind of weak and then grew steadily as the story went on. Is this a testament to the characters' reactions, or my own explanations? I'd actually like to see if the answer to this question changes after the finale, and I'd definitely like to know if there are things in my writing I should be paying more attention to.

And also, I'm getting a lot of "there's a shitton of problems with the story but it's well written" and I can't help but think that some of you might be mentioning the "well written" part because you have nothing else to say about it that's positive. I'm not expecting a response on this, but I'd appreciate it if some other strengths of Mendacium could possibly be brought to my attention at some point. One comment that stuck out to me was

txalolrn9 wrote: I like how you mention that Hanako does not have an actual physical disability unlike Hisao. Everybody seem to forget that and think of the reverse

Because it gives me an example of a detail that someone liked, for one reason or another.

The backlash is due to us having our hearts melted by the melting pot of friendship that is Hanako who is now portrayed as Emi.

NemZ and Oddball pretty much nailed my reaction here. Hisao's inadequacies are completely and totally irrelevant since Hanako never bothered to talk to him about them, and instead chose to willfully betray him and lie to his face about it for months on end. There's no excuse for that. None. And that's assuming we're talking about OCs . . . with Hisao and Hanako the whole thing is surreal to the point of absurdity. We're supposed to believe that Hisao is somehow inadequate for her, despite the fact that he's invested more in her than any other person on the planet? We're supposed to believe that she'd just cheat on him without discussing whatever it is that's bothering her? We're supposed to believe he feels guilty about what happened to her, when she betrayed him instead of talking to him about it?

It just doesn't work. If we saw a pattern of failed efforts, maybe. That's how this stuff works in real life, right? But Hanako never even tried. She just skipped straight to betrayal, and we're supposed to believe that Hisao feels responsible for that? Sorry, but no. He's not that bright, and we all know he's the master of romance, but even still it doesn't wash. He's not that stupid. Neither is Hanako. It might work for a Jerry Springer plot, but it doesn't come close to working for the couple in question.

(And y'know, this wouldn't be so bad if it was sold as Hanako manipulating Hisao somehow, knowing she screwed up and trying desperately to salvage the only relationship she has left. And if Hisao was similarly desperate, thinking she was the only woman he could get . . . but instead they're presented as rational actors, and that just makes the story laughable. The attempts to rationalize his actions, and to justify hers . . . I know you hate Hisao, Brogurt, but this is absurd. It's a mockery of everything presented in the game. Please think about what you're trying to accomplish here before continuing.)

Mealforthree wrote:The backlash is due to us having our hearts melted by the melting pot of friendship that is Hanako who is now portrayed as Emi.

Like hell. Emi might be sexually adventurous, but nothing in the game suggests she'd betray her friends at the drop of a hat as Hanako has here. Emi's a decent person; she cares about the people around her. The same cannot be said of Brogurt's Hanako.

Brogurt wrote:And also, I'm getting a lot of "there's a shitton of problems with the story but it's well written" and I can't help but think that some of you might be mentioning the "well written" part because you have nothing else to say about it that's positive. I'm not expecting a response on this, but I'd appreciate it if some other strengths of Mendacium could possibly be brought to my attention at some point.

That's because being a competent writer doesn't change the fact that it's a shitty premise. And both of those are true -- you are a competent writer, and you're good at evoking the general style of the game, but the premise as presented doesn't ring true at all. Neither of these characters would act in the way you're portraying them here, and that makes the whole scenario break down from the beginning.

I can tell you honestly, I wasn't saying it was well written just to say something positive

There's no doubt you have put a lot of time and effort into it and it shows

He's telling a story. There's no trying, and there's no ulterior motive. Jeez.

I am right, right?

Not once in my life have I ever had such tremendous RAGE over a simple fanfiction. I was literally gritting my teeth in anger as I read through Part 3.

Bagheera wrote:

Mealforthree wrote:The backlash is due to us having our hearts melted by the melting pot of friendship that is Hanako who is now portrayed as Emi.

Like hell. Emi might be sexually adventurous, but nothing in the game suggests she'd betray her friends at the drop of a hat as Hanako has here. Emi's a decent person; she cares about the people around her. The same cannot be said of Brogurt's Hanako.

That particular whorification of Emi of mine was pertinent to the joke going on in the KSG's. Emi is a wonderful girl.

And also, I'm getting a lot of "there's a shitton of problems with the story but it's well written" and I can't help but think that some of you might be mentioning the "well written" part because you have nothing else to say about it that's positive. I'm not expecting a response on this, but I'd appreciate it if some other strengths of Mendacium could possibly be brought to my attention at some point. One comment that stuck out to me was

Alright, I figure I can give you that much if you really want. I went ahead and finished reading it because of this. The dialog works well for the most part. You did a very good job setting the mood and atmosphere for the story, and it's well paced, and you do a fairly good job at capturing Hisao's anger in the narration.

On the bad side; from your comment,s you seem to not have intended to emphasis the sex as much, but you sure seem to mention it quite a bit. Maybe if you talked more about what else she got out of that relationship and less about how much she enjoyed the sex, your intentions on those scenes would be clearer.

While I said the dialog and narration was good, it also feels disconnected. Hanako is suddenly confident and sure about her self enough to cheat on Hisao on a regualr basis, but she still has a horrible stutter. Hisao's narration talks about how angry he is, but it never shows up in any of his actions. In the game, we saw he get angry enough to verbally lash out, or at the very least try to avoid somebody and let them handle their own problems. Here he's practically waiting on Hanako hand and foot all while she talks about how big a dick her new boyfriend had and how worthless he is as a human being. He made Rin cry for less than that.

Really though, this just doesn't feel like Hanako. She hated being treated like a broken person, then goes and tells Hisao to his face that he's not normal and not good enough for her. She's talked about how much she truly values friendship in the game, and in your story, she throw it's away like it's nothing. She goes from babrly able to have a conversation with anyone that's not Lilly or Hisao, to skipping out and sleeping around behind Hisao's back several times a week. Basically, in the game Hisao and Hanako both say that they want to be there for each other. Here she says "I'm going to be normal. You'll never be normal, so screw you!" This just doesn't strike me as character growth. It's more like some bizarro alternate reality Hanako where good guys and bad guys and black is white.

Brogurt wrote:She just wanted to see if she could be entirely accepted by Hisao in part 3... and he ultimately couldn't trust her.

She's in no position to be putting anyone through those sorts of unspoken tests. Besides, if he did completely trust her after this bullshit he'd be just showing once again what a spineless fool he is, unworthy of respect.

>on inadequacy

I fail to see how any of that has to do with him though. Until this new situation put him back into overprotective mode he supposedly was treating her like an equal. If she sees it differently or thinks he has ulterior motives she should, again, TALK ABOUT IT. This 'subhuman' concept is entirely in her own mind and reeks of bigotry against everyone else at the school.

Then again, holding on to my other (rather unlikely) speculation...
There was no other guy; she's making all this shit up to try and provoke him into stepping up his game.

The rage on this thread is too damn high! Damn it, why can't my stories generate this level of controversy >:(

I still found the story somewhat believable until Hisao's logic started to get fucked up. There's only so much he can sympathize with Hanako before deciding to leave.

Bagheera wrote: (And y'know, this wouldn't be so bad if it was sold as Hanako manipulating Hisao somehow, knowing she screwed up and trying desperately to salvage the only relationship she has left. And if Hisao was similarly desperate, thinking she was the only woman he could get . . . but instead they're presented as rational actors, and that just makes the story laughable. The attempts to rationalize his actions, and to justify hers . . .

Now Bagheera's idea I find more plausible. A somehow manipulative Hanako would make events in the plot WAY more sensible, like pretending to consider suicide so that HIsao wouldn't straight up reject her or 'lying' about being on the pill. Hell, you could even make Hanako justify her manipulation by being like "Hisao would be the only dolt to come back to me after I cheated on someone. After all, I am using the rape card." Bonus points if the rape turned out to be a lie.

nemz wrote:There was no other guy; she's making all this shit up to try and provoke him into stepping up his game.

That would totally work into the whole manipulative Hanako thing. But in the actual story, I severely doubt that's a possible event. Hanako wears her emotions on her sleeve, she wouldn't be able to lie about that.

Bagheera wrote: It just doesn't work. If we saw a pattern of failed efforts, maybe.

How would you (and anyone else here) respond to a prequel to Mendacium? A series of short stories detailing how things began to fall apart, and showing how Hisao was ignorant to the fact, as opposed to me trying to tell the reader that things haven't all been well and expecting them to believe it.

And I assure you, my dislike of the Master of Romance wasn't a deciding influence on his behavior in this story. I did try to emulate his behavior to a certain extent for authenticity's sake (I sure as hell wasn't going to make him some kind of Mary Sue) but I tried to make sure that malice played no role in it.

Hanako wears her emotions on her sleeve, she wouldn't be able to lie about that.

Apparently she's able to lie about quite a bit in this story.

nemz wrote:

>on inadequacy

I fail to see how any of that has to do with him though. Until this new situation put him back into overprotective mode he supposedly was treating her like an equal. If she sees it differently or thinks he has ulterior motives she should, again, TALK ABOUT IT. This 'subhuman' concept is entirely in her own mind and reeks of bigotry against everyone else at the school.

Then again, holding on to my other (rather unlikely) speculation...
There was no other guy; she's making all this shit up to try and provoke him into stepping up his game.

eh, if that's the case, she's just full on crazy and the eventual outcome of the relationship is cpl_crud's bizarro yandere ending for her