Katawa Shoujo Forums

Ultraxion wrote:Regarding Shizune (my second favorite after Lilly), I agree that she has made her fair share of mistakes, especially in taking people for granted. But to me, part of the route is the process of her realizing the mistakes she's made and taking steps to amend them, especially repairing her friendship with Misha and rethinking her view of everything as a competition. Hisao also goes through a similar process, realizing that he, in his depression, pushed away his friends and Iwanako while he was in the hospital (the fact that he comes to this insight, which might be because Shizune's route lasts longer than the others, is another reason I like the route).

Interesting that your favorites are Shizune and Lilly. Usually they're on opposite ends of the spectrum. Just a few points, though. Shicchan does realize the error of her ways by the end of her arc (in both endings), but I don't think there's any evidence to show her really changing her fundamental worldview (i.e. seeing everything as an obstacle or challenge to be overcome). From my perspective she's more of a static character, to which both Misha and Hicchan have to adjust, accepting her for who she is rather than attempting to "fix" her abrasive personality. Also, as a result of Iwanako's letter Hisao comes to very similar conclusions in every route, not just Shizune's. And just to clarify, her arc is only the longest in terms of the time covered by the story - not by the actual number of text boxes or scenes.

Lastly...

Ultraxion wrote:I am the beginning of the end...the shadow which blots out the sun...the bell which tolls your doom... for this moment ALONE was I made. Look upon your death, mortals, and despair! I WILL DRAG YOU WITH ME INTO FLAME AND DARKNESS!!

yummines wrote:i dont dislike Shizune, but i like her the least out of all the other characters.

why? because unlike every other girl with their respective routes, she doesn't change at all from her base character. all the characters in KS are archetypes. the shy, timid girl. the one with her head in the clouds. the one who is overly nice and motherly. the one with something to prove. the athletic, upbeat girl.

in each of these characters route's their past is shown and they slowly develop a new part of their personality, and/or fix old issues with their personality. well that and/or find love i suppose. [...] Shizune's... well. She mends her relationship with Misha, but that isn't to say it wasn't already kind of broken when it started. also she still has communication issues which are not any different at her good ending. and they dont even stay together.

That's kind of the point of the arc. It would have been easy (so very easy) for A22 to write it that way, having Misha and Hicchan "fix" Shicchan, conforming her to them rather than the reverse. I agree that she's a static character, or at the very least the most static of any of the main heroines (new facets of her personality reveal themselves as the story moves forward, but I wouldn't say she changes as a character). However, the way it turns out is much more realistic and works to the benefit of the arc as a whole, in my humble opinion.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:Interesting that your favorites are Shizune and Lilly. Usually they're on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Shizune is my least favourite, followed by Lilly. Enemy | seems to think so, too. So I wonder whether they're really usually on opposite ends, or whether that's just an impression furthered by their ingame rivalry. That can lead people to playfully choose favourites and overstate their preference. Not sure. Just a tangent to think along.

Interestingly, before playing Shizune's route, Lilly would have been my least favourite. The biggest difference between the two is that Lilly is pleasant but unexceptional, while Shizune is interesting but exhausting.

Before playing Emi's route, Emi was a candidate for least favourite, too. She seemed a bit on cute-but-forgettable side. Emi is the girl who profited from her own route the most.

I really like them all, though.

I think my least favourite is Rin, I agree that her story was really good , but I didn't really... I dunno... Understand her... I dunno, I just didn't like as much, she is kinda weird.

ArazelEternal wrote:Shizune. She is too bossy and competitive for me. She doesnt seem to care what you think and will override you without much thought. She is way too forceful and will strike you like she did to Hisao by slamming his head down on his desk in one of the paths. I would have very likely backhanded her hard enough to cause damage. I cant remember anytime in my life I have actually hit anyone, Im very passive. However, I think that she would be capable of driving me to retaliate.

Power fantasies much?

Seriously, I don't recall this incident. Which route did it happen on?

Honestly, i'd think Rin would piss me a little too. But, Shizune gets my vote for being forceful on things. I'm a bit of a laid back person so I don't like it when things are forced to me. (I'm sure she's not that bad but I feel bad for Shizune getting that much votes lol.)

Emi. Ironically, her route hit me the hardest out of all the girls.

Synthus wrote:Power fantasies much?

Seriously, I don't recall this incident. Which route did it happen on?

I'm fairly certain in happens in Shizune's arc, probably in Act 2 - either that or one of the Shizune/Misha/Hisao scenes towards the end of Act I. They're in class, and Hicchan is dozing off, so Shizune smacks his head across the desk to wake him up.

Actually I'm pretty sure she does it twice to get her point across. I'd look it up this instant if I could, but unfortunately I can't.

Wow. I won't even explain how utterly bugfuck retarded it is to think that a smack like that could cause damage, and complaining about it sounds even sillier when you consider the context.

nemz wrote:I feel oddly proud that my favorites are the least liked.

Less competition?

Snow_Storm wrote:Christ, no love to Shizune or Emi?

Emi's my favorite, so there's plenty of love here for her.

Unfortunately, I had to vote for Shizune as my least favorite. Rin was nearly impossible to connect with, but she at least I could understand at times, and being an artist made her a little less alien to me; I could sympathize with a lot of her fears. Also, she was funny sometimes, even if it was unintentional, which made hanging out with her and Emi in Emi's route even more enjoyable to me. Shizune, however, was just draining to be around, and her constant competitiveness would leave me exhausted and annoyed. The fact that she views people not getting worked up about stuff as some sort of personal failing or indicator of a lack of commitment/passion would tick me off, and the way she treats Lilly was another strike against her in my mind.

As others have pointed out, the way Shizune compartmentalizes her life really irks me. The only times it felt like Hisao was in a romantic relationship with her was when she wanted sex. That bugged me more than most everything else; it felt so disjointed, like Shizune was deliberately keeping him at arm's length until it suited her to draw close. Emi did that, too, but at least there I felt like she had an actual romantic relationship with Hisao, and occasionally a crack would appear in her walls and you could see that she was struggling against her "philosophy" because she really wanted to be with him heart and soul. I never really got the sense that Shizune felt as strongly about Hisao, apart from mentioning once that she admired him. I recognize it's entirely possible that an A-type personality might conduct their romantic relationships that way and be fine with that, but it's completely alien to the way I think and feel, and it would make me feel like an afterthought or an obligation rather than a romantic partner.

I can't say that I necessarily condemn her for how she treats Misha. Despite how awful Misha's situation is, most of it is Misha's doing; I didn't see it as Shizune using Misha, but rather as Misha wanting so badly to be close to Shizune that she was willing to be her personal assistant *cough*slave*cough* in order to do so. I'm not gay, so I can't entirely understand what it must be like, but I have carried a torch for someone - for many, many years - who wasn't romantically interested in me, so I completely sympathize with Misha on that point. Unrequited love drives you to make decisions based not on what's best or healthiest, but on what allows you to be close to the object of your love. You may never have the romance, so you try to content yourself with the friendship, because it at least allows you to be close to her, and to help her when you can; despite the pain and longing you tell yourself this is the best you can get, while you [vainly] hope her heart will change toward you. It could be that Shizune should have pushed her away for her own good, but I wonder if that would have just been alien to Shizune's thought processes. It also bears mentioning that Shizune obviously cares about Misha and their friendship, too, so she didn't want to push Misha away either, and probably just hoped that eventually Misha would get over her. It's a tragic situation no matter how you look at it.

In the end, it's important to me to clarify that I don't dislike Shizune - she was still friendly to and concerned about Hisao even on those paths where he turned down the Student Council, and after playing her route I discovered she wasn't at all the hard-ass I was expecting her to be. In fact, I liked her more when I discovered that she wasn't just all about DOING ALL THE THINGS; she would arbitrarily take breaks from the busy-work and often seemed to use the work as an excuse to do things with Hisao and Misha. Also, the way she turned everything into a game was at times endearing - the Risk game was hilarious, and I loved the challenge she posed to Hisao at her house: escaping with Hideaki with extra points for style. At the same time, the fact that she was constantly generating pointless busy-work was another off-putting trait. Emi may be every bit as driven as Shizune, but there is a definite point and a benefit to the things Emi pushes Hisao to do, and the fact that Emi never planned ahead was endearing to me, if only because it matched my own habit of, um, spontaneity. Shizune would find that maddening, I'm sure.

I haven't played through all paths yet, so my opinion might change in the future. But right now the one I like the least is Shizune.
I don't hate her or anything, but it's kinda weird.
When I played the game for the first time, my first impression of her was "Ugh, the stereotipically annoying class rep",
after a lil while I was like "Hey she's ain't bad! She's actually nice and all", but that might have been Misha's influence.
Then during Lilly's path I start to hate her a bit and think that she's just a huge hearless bitch, but then there was Hanako's path and it was kind of surprising to see that she could actually care about other people. So that changed my opinion a bit.
I don't know what to think about her right, 'cept that she's kind of annyoing.

I can see why people don't like Rin that much. I was actually able to understand her, and I could relate to her a lot, she's a pretty cool girl, but it's really fucking annoying that you can't have a single somewhat NORMAL conversation with her ever.

Emi. Similar to other people's responses before, she just irritates me. I don't know why, but her childish figure just. pisses. me. off. And secondly - how can anyone hate Hanako? I'm sorry, but I can't understand how such a thing is possible. Can someone please explain to me how she can be the LEAST LIKED? I mean, I can understand if one does not like her, but seriously the least liked? Of course, everyone has an opinion. It's just me assing around I guess. So someone please explain to me - how can Hanako be the least liked? Her shyness? Her past? Thanks.

hanako69 wrote:Emi. Similar to other people's responses before, she just irritates me. I don't know why, but her childish figure just. pisses. me. off. And secondly - how can anyone hate Hanako? I'm sorry, but I can't understand how such a thing is possible. Can someone please explain to me how she can be the LEAST LIKED? I mean, I can understand if one does not like her, but seriously the least liked? Of course, everyone has an opinion. It's just me assing around I guess. So someone please explain to me - how can Hanako be the least liked? Her shyness? Her past? Thanks.

She isn't the least liked, you're getting the opposite there. She's the least disliked.

Synthus wrote:Wow. I won't even explain how utterly bugfuck retarded it is to think that a smack like that could cause damage, and complaining about it sounds even sillier when you consider the context.

No, Synthus, don't you see!? It's foreshadowing the domestic abuse that will ravage the relationship between Hicchan and Shicchan in the future! Clearly the most significant scene in the entire arc!

Synthus wrote:Wow. I won't even explain how utterly bugfuck retarded it is to think that a smack like that could cause damage, and complaining about it sounds even sillier when you consider the context.

Regardless of context or if it causes actual damage, most people don't enjoy getting their head smacked against desks. Crazy, I know, but it's true.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Synthus wrote:Wow. I won't even explain how utterly bugfuck retarded it is to think that a smack like that could cause damage, and complaining about it sounds even sillier when you consider the context.

No, Synthus, don't you see!? It's foreshadowing the domestic abuse that will ravage the relationship between Hicchan and Shicchan in the future! Clearly the most significant scene in the entire arc!

This is now part of my headcanon