Katawa Shoujo Forums

I can't shake the notion that Hanako's real feelings came out when she was drunk. Hisao should have held her, embraced her, and told her everything was going to be alright. For all we know, her remembering that he pushed her away might have been taken as a rejection of sorts, as if he wasn't interested in her that way. How come I never saw anyone discussing that? Everyone talked about how funny it was, but I didn't see anyone talking about how Hanako may have really felt about it. How come Hisao gets uncomfortable in sudden intimate situations? If it was me, it would have been exactly what I wanted, and I wouldn't have let go of her for a long time. Then I'd have whispered in her ear. Something along the lines of "I love you, Hanako."

because I got bored, and the image was posted on this thread originally, I'm gonna add my version here:

Now with a proper tagline!

I can't shake the notion that Hanako's real feelings came out when she was drunk. Hisao should have held her, embraced her, and told her everything was going to be alright. For all we know, her remembering that he pushed her away might have been taken as a rejection of sorts, as if he wasn't interested in her that way. How come I never saw anyone discussing that? Everyone talked about how funny it was, but I didn't see anyone talking about how Hanako may have really felt about it. How come Hisao gets uncomfortable in sudden intimate situations? If it was me, it would have been exactly what I wanted, and I wouldn't have let go of her for a long time. Then I'd have whispered in her ear. Something along the lines of "I love you, Hanako."

Because Hanako wasn't being herself at that point and Hisao was right not to immediately jump to the conclusion that alcohol brings out someone's true self. People who are drunk often do things they sorely regret afterwards and Hisao didn't want to risk blowing up his friendship with her by taking advantage of her drunken state. If you're really curious about other people's opinions of this, feel free to start a discussion in the public forum, but my opinion is that while Hisao made several bad decisions in Hanako's route, not going along with her intoxicated attempts to come on to him wasn't one of them.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:How come Hisao gets uncomfortable in sudden intimate situations?

Well, it's almost a philosophic question... Why do teenagers (and many adults) get uncomfortable in sudden intimate situations?

If it was me, it would have been exactly what I wanted, and I wouldn't have let go of her for a long time. Then I'd have whispered in her ear. Something along the lines of "I love you, Hanako."

I have to agree with Guest Poster that that is going into very dangerous territory...

Refusing her sexually was the only correct option at that point. But, Hisao could've been more affectionate with Hanako, and made it clear that he was only refusing her in that way because she was drunk. Then again, he was unsure about his own feelings towards Hanako, so the way he was acting made sense.

Also, I'm of the opinion that Lilly knew a LOT more than she let on. She's not an idiot, she knew Hanako had the hots for Hisao (hell, she probably heard Hanako relieving her tension across the hall), and that she was shitfaced, and I think she was setting that situation, "weird stuff" (as Hisao put it) and all, up on purpose, as horrible of an idea as it was. (I also think Akira and Hanako had a bit of a thing for each other, and that Lilly knew that, too. But that's less relevant here.)

But, Hisao could've been more affectionate with Hanako, and made it clear that he was only refusing her in that way because she was drunk.

That would only be a problem if Hanako even remembered what happened that night, which Hisao wasn't sure of either. Anyway, I think affection at that point would have been easier to misinterpret in the heat of the moment than refusal afterwards. Hisao knew that he was a guy (who had a couple of drinks himself) and Hanako was a girl he already knew he felt a sense of attraction to. Rather than risk getting carried away, he made a conscious effort to avoid even setting a single foot on that particular slope, just in case it turned out to be slippery. It would have been different if Hisao and Hanako had been dating and were familiar with what the other would or wouldn't consent to under normal circumstances, but they never even shared a hug before, so Hisao rightfully doubted a sober Hanako would be comfortable with even the glomp-hug she herself engaged in at that point.

And naturally, Lilly knew about how Hanako felt about Hisao. She nearly lets it slip during one of the later scenes. Letting Hisao take Hanako to her room was one of her many matchmaking attempts and probably the least subtle one at that. It was kinda bold, but Lilly was a little tipsy herself already and probably didn't think Hisao would take advantage of the situation. (which he didn't)

I was mainly speaking of my own feelings about the situation, but still, a nice affectionate hug wouldn't have blown the tops any.

"Officer, why are you handcuffing me?"

"Sir, you hugged a girl while she was drunk. You clearly took her innocence while she was unable to resist you."

Yeah, that isn't anywhere near my thought process, let alone logical. Now on the other hand, if Hisao hugged her and she tried to make a move on him, that's where we'd have a discussion. But a simple hug and maybe a little bit of a snuggle (like the way she pressed into his shirt) before backing away wouldn't have hurt anything. I can understand his thought process. However, he and I were trained and raised differently. I knew from the get go what the ground rules are.

Hisao knows the major ground rule is consent.

At that point in the story, he still had no clue whether a sober Hanako even would have WANTED to be hugged or snuggled with. If Hanako and Hisao had exchanged hugs and snuggles before, while sober and with obvious mutual consent, it would have been a different story because he would have known that it would have been within the boundaries of her consent, but that wasn't the case here. As a VN-player, you know Hisao's gonna end up with Hanako eventually because we're on her route, but Hisao didn't have the advantage of that kind of meta-foresight. He decided not to do anything that he wasn't sure she would consent to. That includes potentially unwanted hugging and snuggling. (Japanese are kind of hand-offish to begin with, so unwanted hugging and snuggling might have been a big deal)

If you ever fall in love with a woman in real life and the first time you get the opportunity for intimate physical contact coincides with her being completely slammed, follow Hisao's example and put it off. It beats the risk of your love interest coming to think of you as a creepy person.

Guest Poster wrote:Hisao knows the major ground rule is consent.

At that point in the story, he still had no clue whether a sober Hanako even would have WANTED to be hugged or snuggled with. If Hanako and Hisao had exchanged hugs and snuggles before, while sober and with obvious mutual consent, it would have been a different story because he would have known that it would have been within the boundaries of her consent, but that wasn't the case here. As a VN-player, you know Hisao's gonna end up with Hanako eventually because we're on her route, but Hisao didn't have the advantage of that kind of meta-foresight. He decided not to do anything that he wasn't sure she would consent to. That includes potentially unwanted hugging and snuggling. (Japanese are kind of hand-offish to begin with, so unwanted hugging and snuggling might have been a big deal)

If you ever fall in love with a woman in real life and the first time you get the opportunity for intimate physical contact coincides with her being completely slammed, follow Hisao's example and put it off. It beats the risk of your love interest coming to think of you as a creepy person.

I couldn't agree more. I've been a similar situation (thought the girl was heartbroken, not drunk), and I made the same decision. She too said, a couple of weeks later, that she wasn't being herself at the time, and that my decision showed her why I am her best friend. ^^ I've also been in a situation when the girl was just being friendly, which I understood perfectly clear, but she later thought she's been too friendly and almost canceled our friendship (despite nothing happening). So be careful.

And yes, the Japanese are very "hand-offish". That's why you hardly ever see hugs in anime. :3
Just friends
In a relationship (kinda)
Warning: contains spoilers from Clannad!

I never knew a hug could offend people so much. I was trained different. You see, where I come from, people shouldn't hold back their emotions, and a friendly hug never killed anybody.

I didn't say hug her and then throw her on the bed and pound her 'til she doesn't remember, I said just put arms around her, gently, and then separate. The rest of my rant is produced by the fact that even at that point, were I in that situation, I'd have read Hanako better and known she was interested, plus I'd want the same.

These are liberties I can take with fictional characters. If Hanako were real, she would not be my other half most likely, and I'd have to reject her. Which is why I'm happy she gets to stay in my heart as a fictional character. Eventually, I'll find the woman meant to take that place.

I never knew a hug could offend people so much. I was trained different. You see, where I come from, people shouldn't hold back their emotions, and a friendly hug never killed anybody.

I notice that you completely ignore the issue of consent here. A friendly hug never killed anyone, but the same could be said about a friendly slap on the butt. (resists temptation to make Italian boss joke) The point is that different people have different ideas of personal space and invading the wrong person's personal space without thinking can result in that person feeling very unsettled by you.

I didn't say hug her and then throw her on the bed and pound her 'til she doesn't remember, I said just put arms around her, gently, and then separate.

You still weren't in a position to know HER idea of what was wanted or not and I'd say that was kind of important. The quoted line above, exaggerated a bit, basically amounts to: "It's fine to take advantage of drunk girls, as long as you don't have sex with them." Again, consent.

The rest of my rant is produced by the fact that even at that point, were I in that situation, I'd have read Hanako better and known she was interested, plus I'd want the same.

Unless you have a lot of experience "reading" drunk people, or have been in a long-term relationship with a person exactly like Hanako, that's a VERY bold claim to make. It would have been a whole lot more likely that the bolded part would have made an objective "read" impossible and you'd merely be telling yourself that she was interested too whether that was actually the case or not. It's not easy reading people who are as closed as Hanako is. She may be the most popular girl of the cast in many polls, but I nevertheless noticed that the finer nuances of her route's theme go straight over a lot of people's heads. (sometimes to an almost comical extent)

Eventually, I'll find the woman meant to take that place.

I hope you find her soon, but when you do, please don't hug or snuggle her until you know she's okay with it.

I was once pretty drunk myself, and at that time, all my inner thoughts and emotions came out. Inhibitions were lowered, I openly started talking about a girl all the way across the world that I wished I could be with. Tears flowed freely, and my friends saw a side of me they've never seen before because I usually repress it. Even nowadays, I'm only my truest self when I refer to KS related things. The truthfulness of my empathetic heart comes out, albeit with bursts of affection and attachment too.

Bloopers not harassment discussion, peeps.

Because why the hell not.

Silentcook wrote:Bloopers not harassment discussion, peeps.

I agree with this...