Okay, you guys are using a lot of smilies now - have I been coming off as belligerent? I hope I haven't, but sometimes I can be kind of humorless. I've just been having fun picking apart the characters.metalangel wrote: (I'm just trying to lighten the mood, we shouldn't be taking offense and/or waging war over every little comment that doesn't match precisely with our view. I'm just glad to have all you guys here to talk to about KS and related topics)
I should have picked Evangelist for my username instead of Worldly Wiseman...
Tell you what, we could agree on a middle ground - that her need to find bigger and harder challenges and her willingness to jump at small, seemingly petty ones is a conflict at the core of her character.Titus wrote: Good end was scraped for the neutral end just kidding. That's her philanthropist side, she realizes her old ways of playing with people like little chess pieces (bad end reveals this - right before their first sex scene too) is wrong and she's going to change that. Most of the story then, it can be assumed that she still liked to play around, after all she loves the thrill of the arguing with Lilly. Despite there being no need.
Games are collections of arbitrary rules, and so is society (sort of, it's more like dozens of competing sets of rules), so the line can be as blurry as we want to make it. Shizune clearly likes messing with the vague machinery of both to 'achieve victory' in whatever she has in mind. The same thought processes are present in both. She wants to be a leader and has the will but is obviously still learning how best to do it. We're almost just arguing over specific words.
Whaddya say?
I think I found it, right before the H scene, it's "I thought that painting would be enough, because I at least did that right. That all that is inside me could become a picture if I tried really hard. And it could. But it doesn't feel like it's enough anymore."Titus wrote:Really, now? ... She's says brushes and paints were pretty much her friends, it's the BEST way she can communicate to others in her own opinion. If that doesn't spell just how important and how big a part painting/drawing/art is in her life then...well...then wtf man? The story had completely lead me wrongRin isn't even particularly beholden to painting, anyway
So I was...half right? She's in it to express herself, not to make Art like Nomiya wants. But I guess I blew it out of proportion after the fact? Who knows if Rin would try other art forms given the chance, there's nothing in the text to imply it I don't think.
I'm going to retract my previous statement about Lilly not being a leader, because there are different kinds of leaders. This might have been discussed to death earlier in the thread, I don't feel like checking because I'll make this quick. To use a US government analogy, Shizune is an executive leader, acting as the taskmaster and holding the staff members beneath her responsible for getting their jobs done, and Lilly is in Congress, working behind-the-scenes to build a consensus among representatives. One pushes their influence outward, the other pulls it inward.Lilly and Shizune as leaders
This doesn't mirror as clearly to classroom politics, but they have a lot to learn in any case.
It's the one that sticks in people's minds, I think. You get to see it no matter what route you take, and it's presented pretty dramatically.Mirrormn wrote: Anyway, I don't think that one episode is really that important in painting the overall picture of either Lilly or Shizune's characters, but it annoys me to have it so grossly misinterpreted as being a focal point demonstrating Lilly's irresponsibility, when it is really nothing of the sort.
Sending Hisao is overkill, yeah, it could be any student if they're armed with a paper mask and some hand sanitizer (the idea being to get in contact with the sick kids and get the thing done). It seems a more likely option than Shizune just letting it drop or openly apologizing, since this would let her demonstrate that she's in control. I guess Lilly could have gotten control of the discussion much earlier by just flat-out saying "The forms have been completed and they are with two students who have fallen ill. The forms will be in my hands by the end of the day." right off the bat instead of politely talking around the subject.
Lilly is willing to initiate these petty fights herself (when Shizune and Hisao are eating lunch outside, she starts a spat pretty much on her own), so the history of them fighting is weighted pretty evenly in my eyes.
Mental image -rydiafan wrote:This is the never ending fight ... when i start this thread i thought it was gonna be burried after 15 post at the most ... fan boys/girls till the end
at this point does it matter who is better ?? Sticking up for shizune or disliking lilly won't get me a raise at work , won't get me a girl friend or what not .... it just shows we are crazy fan people who get some sort of jollies by defending our favorite character ( im honest with myself now ) lol
Rydiafan is huddled under the table where everyone else is drunkenly arguing. Most everyone else in the drunken debate has already passed out. I'm at one corner babbling about my mad peyote visions. Megumeru is standing on the table pontificating loudly and waving a bottle of scotch. Metalangel and TItus are on one side of the table, grinning like crazy behind their hands. Oddball and Mirrormn are looking on the whole debacle in both awe and annoyance.