Self realization brought on by KS

[CrimsonMoonMist]

Had a massive one after reading Rin's route while reflecting on not being understood nor understanding oneself on a mental level
and how I chose to tackle this obstacle myself and why.
Felt like sharing and hopefully spur up some stories from others.

Now, I have the Aspergers mental disability,
a extremely clear case at that,
Except for one part, that is the part about us coming off as emphatic.
Now, outside of my disability's problems, I have a bad case of not letting things go,
I can, and most likely will voice my opinion numerous times with different kinds of vocabularic wording every time,
often bringing it up days later if I come up with a way to say it that I feel sound more 'right'.
Clearly this fixation with bringing up everything is the total opposite of sounding emphatic and is a totally unrelated personal fault.
At least I thought it was unrelated...

... So! why do Aspergers cases come off as empathic?
Answer! it's because our way of processing thoughts and bringing them out with words are abnormal
as well as the shaping of our childhood due to our way of seeing only our creative trigger (the interest we 'block out the world' to focus on),
causing social interacting to take a backseat.
Moreover we are almost blind to body language so we take people's words matter-of-factly, not by their emotional state
and communicate back in a similar blunt fashion,
hence things like the problem of picking up sarcasm (I've become quite good at noticing the tone of people's voices though if I do say so myself)
So, my point here is: I do think I have the mental hardwiring that cause us to be branded as empathic,
the difference is the way I tackle these thoughts.

Your normal case say it like they think it, it makes sense to them, so it probably does to everyone else and leave it at that.
I am aware my wording may make my actual reason go over people's heads,
so I switch up my vocabulary and, to put it bluntly, say what amounts to the same thing over and over and over and over,
probably distancing myself from my original intent in hope that,
even if my words don't all make sense,
even if I can't get my intent out in one clean statement,
maybe they can pick up what they do understand from my multiple revisions and eventually come to understand what I mean bits by pieces.
To say it right out, the mysteriously missing part of my disability and the seemingly unrelated personal shortcoming
was one and the same.

Does that make any sense?
Somehow I don't think It does, maybe it comes off as offending?
Either way, I'm sticking to this first way of laying my words out as a testament that I can take a step to change it,
even though it may actually go over people's heads or come out wrong as predicted.
At least I might spark some stories from anyone else.

[Renkinjutsushi]

My impression is that most people have grave difficulties understanding one another, even without disabilities standing in the way. I think of my fiancee, and the fact that we still sometimes "talk past each other," the one not really hearing what the others intentions are. This lessens as the years go by, but even after 5 years together it's still an issue.

I would say, instead of repeating variations on the same message in the hope that somebody will apprehend your intention, try saying it once or twice, then wait to hear their response. Like you said, you can actually dilute or substantially change your original message if you repeat it in too many variations.

I have met a few people with Autism, and maybe one with Asperger's, but I can't say for sure. When talking was difficult for them, I would try to engage them in some physical activity like playing a game together. I don't know if that helped, but it seemed to at least ease their anxiety about having to communicate, at least for the moment. This, of course, is an outsider's perspective. I really don't know much about your condition, maybe you could write some more about it?

And no, there's nothing offensive in what you wrote.

[CrimsonMoonMist]

I have met a few people with Autism, and maybe one with Asperger's, but I can't say for sure. When talking was difficult for them, I would try to engage them in some physical activity like playing a game together. I don't know if that helped, but it seemed to at least ease their anxiety about having to communicate, at least for the moment. This, of course, is an outsider's perspective. I really don't know much about your condition, maybe you could write some more about it?

There's probably something there.
Small talk is something I simply cannot do,
whereas I can usually calm down if I feel I have some sort of goal in mind, even small things like say, watching a movie, then that is what I come there to accomplish.
It may seem like it's avoiding the purpose of trying to learn socializing since what I'm doing is essentially looking for a way to ignore the people around me,
but one has to start somewhere. So I don't think that's the wrong way to approach my kind of people, even though it might not accomplish much in their mind.

It's weird, the conflict between the natural human need of social contact with others,
and the fear of actually following those needs.
Even when I do something akin to socializing with others,
it usually leaves me depressed afterwards.
There's even been times where I considered just shutting myself away physically from those around me as well since I'm too estranged mentally anyways,
but despite how much frustration beeing around others cause me, I can never seem to follow through,
it's strange.

I don't mind writing about this since I know most cases aren't as willing to share their errorous mental situation as I am,
so I feel like sharing my way of thinking might make it easier for people to understand.
Personally, I've always been a sickly person, so I don't consider these kind of disability labels as something that defines me,
so it's not something I consider to be personal, It's kinda like discussing the kinds of clothing I wear or something along the line.

If anything, reading Rin's route was what made me start thinking about how this emotional wall of a disorder
that distances me from the rest of the world affects me myself emotionally,
which is why I started seeing the meaning of emotional quirks I previously thought were unrelated to my disorder.
Truth be told, I'm not just emotionally disconnected from the world around me, I might be disconnected from my own mind as well.
And how can I hope for others to understand me when I myself can't even do so?

KS is also what made me start seriously considering my invitation to that local meeting place for people with Aspergers/high-functioning Autism.
Still doubt a room full of emotionally distant people can accomplish much, but who knows? I know I'm a bit of a cynic, gotta keep an open mind.

Again, feel free to tell me if this becomes too personal or if I say something offensive,
the whole deal about not taking a hint kinda comes with the territory.

[Renkinjutsushi]

Do you really feel like you have no emotions? Or just that you have a difficult time expressing them to other people?

Really, reading what you have to say, I don't think we're all that different. I'm a very introverted person a lot of the time. I hate big crowded spaces, wasted pointless speech like in bars and other places where people go "to be seen," whatever that means. It all seems so phony and forced to me, just a lot of insecure people trying to convince each other that they have tons of friends and are cheerful all the time. I can "put on the mask" and do the whole thing, but it's not me; it never is. It's like somebody else is talking.

Talking, on the whole, I think is overrated. How much better to just... be. All the times I'm happiest, it's just "being" with the ones I love and who love me. I can just sit there for hours with to my fiancee. Just sitting there, breathing, being. It's the "comfortable silence" as Hisao says when he's finally starting to understand Rin.

I finished Rin's route tonight, and I didn't cry at all, in fact, I was really happy. Happy that Hisao could finally stop trying to break into "Rin's world" and just... be there. In the moment, with her. Words don't need to be said in such situations. Life is a joy all to itself, like the falling rain, like the dandelions in the breeze.

I think that's why Rin was struggling for the word at the end. "Happiness" doesn't need verbal expression. It's just there, and if we all shut up for a few minutes and truly experience it together, I think we can appreciate it a whole lot more.

Wow. That was a whole lot of words on the subject of... the joy of simply saying nothing.

[fabio.salvador]

I used to be a very sensible young man, I took my feelings seriously, and had this kind of "important sounding" language when talking about deep stuff...

... until the day I realised that the world is cruel with the weak, and that you only waste your time when you pay attention to bullshit.

Then I stopped looking seriously at emotions. Even at the times when I broke someone´s spirit (being a mainly dominant personality, I had some shy/emotionally-dependant girlfriends, a model which matches me best), I learned to look at the mirror, say "well, I screwed it, nobody is perfect, life doesn´t end here", and moved on.

So, what do I have to say to you?

STAND UP! BE TOUGH! KEEP CALM! MOVE ON! No matter how much you cry, life won´t have mercy of you!

[CrimsonMoonMist]

Do you really feel like you have no emotions? Or just that you have a difficult time expressing them to other people?

The latter. It's just that lately I've realized that I might have unconsciously ignored them more than I'd previously thought.
Even when I managed to balance school and my operations and general health checkups,
I basically went at it like a robot, woke up, went to school, did what I was told, then went home with nothing unecessary inbetween,
essentially just seeing it as a matter of course necessity.
My psychiatrist was a bit worried about me not having any emotional attachment to it one way or another,
but I still attended so she didn't mind it too much.
Figured as long as I did what I was told, the rest would come eventually,
but nothing changed as the year went and eventually passed.
Maybe if I just stopped and actually started thinking about my situation at the time,
I could have gotten something out of it.
Kinda hypocritical that I'm expecting people to get me when I don't actually put anything of 'me' into the social interaction I do.

STAND UP! BE TOUGH! KEEP CALM! MOVE ON! No matter how much you cry, life won´t have mercy of you!

The hard facts of life, eh? Don't think I'm quite at the point in life where I can accept those facts quite yet.
If I did, maybe I wouldn't have wasted away what some may call the most precious years of my life on nothing, but still.
Moreover I don't think ignoring your emotions to get farther in life is the right way to go.

[Renkinjutsushi]

I used to be a very sensible young man, I took my feelings seriously, and had this kind of "important sounding" language when talking about deep stuff...

... until the day I realised that the world is cruel with the weak, and that you only waste your time when you pay attention to bullshit.

Then I stopped looking seriously at emotions. Even at the times when I broke someone´s spirit (being a mainly dominant personality, I had some shy/emotionally-dependant girlfriends, a model which matches me best), I learned to look at the mirror, say "well, I screwed it, nobody is perfect, life doesn´t end here", and moved on.

So, what do I have to say to you?

STAND UP! BE TOUGH! KEEP CALM! MOVE ON! No matter how much you cry, life won´t have mercy of you!

So basically you got hurt, and now you stomp on other people's feelings without remorse? Que bueno, "Fabio." And how is that advice helpful in any way to somebody with Aspergers who has trouble expressing himself?

[Alexbond45]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r6HamSoz2w

[encrypted12345]

I used to be a very sensible young man, I took my feelings seriously, and had this kind of "important sounding" language when talking about deep stuff...

... until the day I realised that the world is cruel with the weak, and that you only waste your time when you pay attention to bullshit.

Please, I "realized" all that in elementary school. You were massively sheltered.

Then I realized how STUPID and CHILDISH I was being. Accepting my current crappy condition was like giving up. So what if humans are all bastards, my parents are on the verge of a divorce, my teenage and older cousins are almost all emotionally and mentally unstable, and I am a sappy romanticist? I don't care! An adult is someone who can take their ridiculous and childish ideals and make them into reality. I'll show my dysfunctional and shattered family, that yes, a happy marriage and a happy family is possible!

[Alexbond45]

Hooah encrypted! Follow your dreams!

HOOAH

[Paddy]

I've never really understood what the big deal is about making smalltalk, either. I've tried to, and a few times fairly successfully. But I never learn much. If I want to talk to someone, I want to hear a story, or have a (ordered, mannered) debate, or learn something that might be of use to me. But smalltalk is so... uninteresting. If I think I might want to remember what their job is, or what degree their going for, or if one of their parents died or somesuchthing, I wouldn't bother with smalltalk much.

I never thought I had a mental disorder before. But even if I do, I'm glad I am in good company, at least.

Ren, your post about doing nothing... It's interesting. I've never really heard anyone say it was OK to do that before. I've always felt you've got to be doing or saying something.

[Alexbond45]

Small talk is an easy way to introduce yourself. Also, it can break silence. I hate silence.

[fabio.salvador]

Asperger or not, whatever you have, you are, you do, all I said was a very simple thing:

When you feel a little down, or almost crying, you have two choices:

A) You say sad things, you think about sadness, you cultivate those negative feeelings like evil plants that will eventually poison your heart, and you will obviously fall deeper in your sadness. It´s like when you are swimming, then you swallow some water... if you get in panic you will surely die.


But if you calm down, and move your arms, you get out of the water safely.

B) You stop those feelings, toughen yourself, and get off that. Look to another side. Don´t let sadness defeat you.

FEEL SHY? fORCE YOURSELF TO TALK TO PEOPLE.

[fabio.salvador]

I did not understand what "sheltered" should mean in this context but...

I was the emotional kind of person when I was younger, and it did not help. then I realized that the human mind has a desire for feeling powerful, strong, and when you put a small tought os strenght and energy in the middle of a crisis, this strenght tends to take over, expell sadness and weakness.

I have a very particular way of looking at most things because when you think "oh, this guy di not evolve from point A to point B", the fact is that I already went from A to B, and sometimes figured out that B sucked and then I went to C or back to A with a differente vision about the point A.

And "letting negative emotions flow" is something I learned how to do, then chose not to do anymore.

That doesn´t mean denal of all problems... denying bad stuff is the kind of "solution" you would find in self-help books, and I hate self-help in general. My attitude towards bad thing is more like "my job´s boring? my life sucks? oh yeah! let´s laugh at it! so what? life´s not a rose garden for anyone. it´s just a matter of finding something cool to do after boring job hours. Distract from the problem, get stronger, then react and change the scenario".

In fact, whenever I think my job is boring and meaningless, I rememeber myself "so what? I get a very good monthly payment. After all, working isn´t something we do for fun, isn´t something we do for satisfactions, it´s something we do for MONEY, and as long as they pay me well, the activities we develop during the day don´t need to have any meaning at all".

YOU HAVE TO LOOK LIFE FROM THE BRIGHTER SIDE!

[Tomate]

FEEL SHY? fORCE YOURSELF TO TALK TO PEOPLE.

Or dont, nothing wrong with being shy, to each his own.

Please, I "realized" all that in elementary school. You were massively sheltered.

Then I realized how STUPID and CHILDISH I was being. Accepting my current crappy condition was like giving up. So what if humans are all bastards, my parents are on the verge of a divorce, my teenage and older cousins are almost all emotionally and mentally unstable, and I am a sappy romanticist? I don't care! An adult is someone who can take their ridiculous and childish ideals and make them into reality. I'll show my dysfunctional and shattered family, that yes, a happy marriage and a happy family is possible!

We have some similar views on this, sometimes pride (or hubris if you are feeling dramatic) its a good way to go, no matter what fate throws at yo, you shrug and move on... Like that poem, Ulysses by Tennyson.

"Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in the old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are,
One equal-temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."