Hanako's darker tiles game

[Swoopie]

I thought that I was being too social, so I backed off.

Just picking out something I noticed here. But what triggered this? How can you suddenly think you're too social while it seems you were having a good time back then?

[danyo]

Yeah, it does tell more about her then anything ( I kinda said it wrong aswell, she actually didn't tell me she had someone else, she said she needed some time apart, a friend of mine told me she said she had a new relationship on facebook, and when I asked her about it she just admitted it and that was pretty much all that was said ). But, yes, it's pretty much like dunkelfalke sais, fear for being hurt again for me. I know life cannot be without hurt, but for me, by being lonely, I can at least choise my own hurt, and I can escape from it partially ( by playing video games, watching anime, reading a book though I haven't done that in a while... ) but it all comes back to you usually, for me it's often right before going to sleep, wich causes me to not sleep much at all. I'm probably hurting right now, but, it's not as bad as it could be, it's not like I'm tired of living ( though I've lost my fear of dying a while ago, if that makes sense ).

But is it really your own choice? Because that girl let you down (and possibly others as well), you 'choose' to live your life away from other people. How is that your choice? You actually choose to let previous experiences, mainly things done by OTHER people, define your life, while it would be better (at least in my opinion) to take matters in your own hand and go search for the happiness of sharing with other people. Is it perhaps a choice of perpetual 'moderate' hurt versus potential sharp big hurts?

I see your point, and I partially agree with it, right now though, I'd feel selfish to go search for happiness, if all I can bring to other people is my sadness. I need to work through my problems on my own, because ( quoting emi here I guess ) in the end I'm the only person that can deal with it, no one can help me deal with these problems or fix them for me. It is indeed a choise of perpetual moderate hurt, but it's manageable, I don't think I'd handle a sharp big hurt very well the way I am right now. So it's perhaps not really my choise, but at this point, it feels like the smartest thing to do.

Huh, maybe I'm in need of a female hisao in my life?

Well... I don't know about others, but I don't really see the harm in talking about it, especially online where no one knows you anyway. It's not that hard for me to describe how I feel, because it's pretty much the only thing I do feel these days.

That's indeed the convenience of the Internet, being able to anonymously express your feelings. Kind of an interesting dilemma though, is talking about it here, on the forum, prolonging your loneliness or is it decreasing your loneliness?

Mmm'm, I wonder about that myself. I don't think it's doing anything to the loneliness per se, I think it's because others are saying what they are experiencing, it makes me feel somewhat better to know I'm not alone with these problems, even if they're not exactly the same. It also feels good typing out my thoughts, the responses are great, but ultimately, I think what matters a lot is while I type this, things get sorted a bit better in my own head aswell.

ps.: I also hope it's oké that this thread has derailed quite a bit, I kinda enjoy this talk we're having. I guess it does fit the hanako story line very well in general, and emi's aswell on certain points.

[Beoran]

Exabando: bullying, especially during chilhood sucks, it makes us way suspicious of others. I recognise that waffling between wanting to be social and not wanting to run away from it all. What can I say, just try to go out there and experience new things,even if you don't want other around, then try it alone. But if it's a real depression, ask your physician, depression is a physical disease too.

As for this thread derailing, I guess it's inevitable that this game attracts people with problems like ours. Hanako's a bit like our "patron saint". Maybe they should open a sub forum: the "Hanako's Broken Hearts Club"?

[AnonymousOfNorway]

I'll reply to this slightly out of sequence:

It is indeed a choise of perpetual moderate hurt, but it's manageable, I don't think I'd handle a sharp big hurt very well the way I am right now. So it's perhaps not really my choise, but at this point, it feels like the smartest thing to do.

This is something many of us can relate to, I think. Putting up with moderate pain to avoid the probably sharply painful things. Sometimes it's right to do this (Hanako) while sometimes it's wrong (Emi, and Hisao too when it comes to facing his condition).

It's why some people are afraid to go to the doctor even when they think it's serious, because there's a hope it's not serious and if it turns out to be serious at least you can avoid possibly painful treatment for as long as possible. Unfortunately, sometimes waiting too long can turn a solvable problem into a worse problem.

It's perhaps not exactly the same as procrastination, but it's related to it.

Maybe you do need to slowly re-establish stability in your life. Maybe you're not ready to challenge yourself yet. Or maybe you are. I honestly don't know.

Now here's something I take issue with, if you'll excuse me for a bit:

I see your point, and I partially agree with it, right now though, I'd feel selfish to go search for happiness, if all I can bring to other people is my sadness. I need to work through my problems on my own, because ( quoting emi here I guess ) in the end I'm the only person that can deal with it, no one can help me deal with these problems or fix them for me.

I don't find it selfish to have something sad shared with me. It's a sign of trust. Sure, some people aren't mature enough to be trusted like that, but you sort of work that out when you get to know them. Also in getting to know them, you show an interest in their lives too, and find things in common, so it won't feel weird when you talk about problematic stuff.

Personally, I am happy when people share their problems, sadness and anger with me, because it shows trust - you feel relied on, needed, etc. Sometimes I can offer a "quick-fix", but often it's just a matter of listening and sharing. Sometimes I can accidentally say things which hurt more than heal, but that's OK because it's said as a friend who can make mistakes and has his own problems, but we won't hate each other for it, and we'll be understand each other better afterwards.

If you're afraid that it'll be too much nagging, people tend to give clues that it's too much right now - or maybe they can deftly change the subject to happy thoughts for a while. Focusing too much on the negative thought over a long time is not a good thing; after all mind control cults use that kind of thing to break people down, you know? (Return to the painful event, remember more details about it, until all you think about is the pain, and you have to remember so many details about it that false memory effect starts kicking in and before you know it you remember it worse than it was. Thank you, that'll be 500 dollars.)

Some problems we have to work out by ourselves. But some problems can't be worked out alone, some actually have to be quick-fixed by a "white knight", while some have to be solved by you together with others, taking your time doing so. I suspect that problems in how you relate to others have to be solved by you together with others.

Hanako is pretty popular in this game, and it's pretty obvious that she has issues, but still people enjoy her path and have the feels. Now, this is only a game, and many people would act differently in real life, but some wouldn't. I guess it's a matter if finding some of those people who'll be happy to listen, and then slowly opening up. So when you say you need a Hisao in your life, there are probably many out there. Doesn't necessarily have to be a female Hisao either, since not everyone got into the erotic love of the story, but had a more platonic feel towards Hanako.

Did that make sense?

Exabando: bullying, especially during chilhood sucks, it makes us way suspicious of others.

I was lucky enough to only be bullied in the sense that there was one or two bullies from broken homes who'd physically attack me, when they thought they'd get away with it, but the rest of the kids treated me well. The type of bullying where you get frozen out by the whole group must suck a whole lot more, even if what I got felt bad enough.

[Raburesu]

Haha. Borken Hearts Club. Hisao's condition.

Anyway.

Raburesu, I can't help wondering though. You say that nothing of value was lost, but at the same time is it corect you're unhappy about what happened? Forgive my wild guess at it, but would you say that you lost something in yourself? Or perhaps or that something in yourself was damaged, or changed for the worse?

Every action has a reaction; in this case, there were but two possibilities. Distance is just another test, but you don’t have to play hide and seek if you don’t want to. Or perhaps they didn’t hear me say “start.” Whatever the case may be, if they truly did choose not to play at all, then yes, you might say that I am unhappy with that. Even I can admit that it was ridiculously puerile to essentially run away and expect people to come looking.

I don’t believe anything within me was damaged or changed for the worse, no; rather I gained enlightenment on many things after elucidating my doubts. Then again, as I have been inured to being alone, I deal with solitary suffering in my own way, and quite well at that, so take this with a grain of salt. I don't really feel any different. *shrugs*

I mentioned not caring about some of my friends before, but those were only the ones in our group with whom I was never really very close to begin with. Memories with those who mattered are still treasured, and my feelings regarding those people have not altered in the slightest.

I hate being around people (except for my few friends). Even when I'm at work, I avoid other people at all costs.

Hating people in general is something I cannot fully grasp. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a misanthropist myself, and find most people disgusting and stupid. But that's just it. Some. Hanako says she doesn't like people. But Hisao and Lilly are people. And she likes them. How did this happen? I don't like people, but I had friends, and liked them, too. How did this happen? It all goes back to people like us secretly wanting to find the good in people more than we want to reject them, and for them to somehow find us.

Since we're allowed to listen to music, I just blast my music so that I can't hear anybody, and that they realize that it's a waste of time to try and talk to me.

Do you ever get people who try their damnedest to talk to you despite your inability to hear them, and the obvious message you're sending them by blasting the music in the first place? I fucking hate it when people try that shit with me.

And now, two years after graduating High School, am I just now realizing how bad my depression is getting (to the point of me thinking things like "You should just kill yourself, who's going to notice?") At least I have enough common sense to not follow through on those thoughts. I haven't really been able to talk about this until just now. It feels good to get this off of my chest.

I'm not really sure what I should say, or if I should say anything at all. Given that misery loves company, yet I am fine in the darkness, for the most part, I don't think I can be of much use. Do your friends realise how you feel? If not, maybe they should?

I beg to differ here, ofcourse the rejection of that friend will hurt, but you'll also gained some extra insight, learned something. The fact that the other person rejected you just tells you it wasn't a good match, not that there's something bad about you.

This might sound a little pompous, but I would never think there was something bad about me because of that. Or rather, a stranger thinking there was wouldn't offend me in the slightest. I could explain why, but it isn't pertinent to the discussion. Back on topic, that gained knowledge is entirely useless if you still can't form any bonds.

There's that 'failure' word again. How can something you tried be a failure? It's like saying, ok guys, I tried to do this very difficult math formula, I don't really understand it, but I tried. But, because I didn't get it right in one go, I'll just stop trying altogether, because I suck at math.

No, it is not like that. If you return to a place from your past and see it in a certain light that brings memories from a time you loved flooding back to you, and you try to capture what you feel in words, but what comes out of your mouth isn't exactly how you feel, and you know it, then it is a failure. Sometimes, humans are unable to put their feelings into words, because that is a trap. That doesn't mean you give up on talking completely despite this, however, but it would certainly be awkward to stand there trying to say what you want over and over again, wouldn't it?

Yeah, sorry about that

ps.: I also hope it's oké that this thread has derailed quite a bit

Seriously, guys, the topic that came out of the original one I brought up is way more interesting. And if it's cathartic for people to talk about their feelings, please, continue~

[Exbando]

Just picking out something I noticed here. But what triggered this? How can you suddenly think you're too social while it seems you were having a good time back then?

Well, I started realizing that most of the people there were just dicks. I couldn't stand them.

Exabando: bullying, especially during chilhood sucks, it makes us way suspicious of others. I recognise that waffling between wanting to be social and not wanting to run away from it all. What can I say, just try to go out there and experience new things,even if you don't want other around, then try it alone. But if it's a real depression, ask your physician, depression is a physical disease too.

I do plan on seeing someone about it, but I've never had the motivation to get out there and do it.

Hating people in general is something I cannot fully grasp. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a misanthropist myself, and find most people disgusting and stupid. But that's just it. Some. Hanako says she doesn't like people. But Hisao and Lilly are people. And she likes them. How did this happen? I don't like people, but I had friends, and liked them, too. How did this happen? It all goes back to people like us secretly wanting to find the good in people more than we want to reject them, and for them to somehow find us.

Maybe hate was too strong of a word, but I think that I would consider my friends to be the exception to the rule.

Do you ever get people who try their damnedest to talk to you despite your inability to hear them, and the obvious message you're sending them by blasting the music in the first place? I fucking hate it when people try that shit with me.

Yes, yes I have. There was one guy who said something along the lines of, "I'm gonna try to get five words out of the kid who listens to music."

I'm not really sure what I should say, or if I should say anything at all. Given that misery loves company, yet I am fine in the darkness, for the most part, I don't think I can be of much use. Do your friends realise how you feel? If not, maybe they should?

Well, I did send a facebook message to them recently, since we are all always busy. It went like this:

"I've been doing a lot of thinking lately, and I've come to a conclusion. I mean no offense to anyone when I say this. I feel like I have been using you guys to try and escape my own problems. I think it's time for me to man up and face these problems. I'm probably going to drop off the face of the planet for a while while I figure this shit out. If you want to guess what my problems could be, look at my profile pictures and it should be fairly obvious."

Sorry it took so long for me to respond, I was in a 3 hour class.

[dunkelfalke]

Ok, hope I'm not going all 'Dr. Phil' too much, but here's that knowledge again. You 'know' something is wrong with you? How so? What IS wrong with you then? Can I ask you to explain that?

Well, that bit of privacy is something I'd like to keep for myself for now. Let's just say that there is more than enough wrong with me, certainly enough for my mother (a medical doctor) to urge me to seek professional help.

But, clearly, that fear doesn't keep you from posting here right? Even now, I could say something completely mean to you (if I would want to) and although it's on the Internet, that could hurt you, in a way. But you seem to be willing to take that risk. Why not take that further a bit and 'go out there'?

That's is maybe a bit of a sticks and stones situation - you are not close enough to me to hurt me. In your current position you could be able to piss me off and maybe poison my mood for an hour, but that's about it.

You don't know anything else anymore? Aren't you missing the 'anything else' part? Like I said before, isn't it worth the risk?

Missing would be the wrong term there. It has been too long ago to miss. The only reason why I want to change the situation is because it sucks. I can't even say whether the alternatives are better or not, but right now the situation is bad enough to consider them.

[Beoran]

Raburesu:

Hmm, well, your situation was probably different than mine, I never had many friends, even not acquaintances around me. By the way, acquaintances is the the *proper* name for people whom you know but are not close with, I hate the words distant friend , or false friend, these are internal contradictions that confuse the matter.

I have a lot of very decent colleagues at work, and although I like to talk to most them, it's hard for me to do so on a daily basis, especially when I'm feeling blue. In my private life, I can say that I think I was lucky for my wife to find me, and after so many years, we've got our lovely daughter to show for it, but... it's as you said, misery likes company. She was hurt and scarred too. It's hard, sometimes painful for two hedgehogs to embrace each other. It can get lonely at times too.

All I can think of right now to say to you is is that perhaps you need to find different people around you. Not too many, just a few really, but a few that really matter and to who you really matter. But perhaps it's best to go at it slowly, to avoid big deceptions pushing you back deeper.

Exbando:
Facebook is a pool that is as shallow as it's wide. Real friends are not records in a database and certainly don' t need to be kept track of like facebook does it. I hate the way they use the word "friend" in their interface, too it debases it.

Exbando & dunkelfake:
I don't know if you'll listen to me, but if it 's that bad you should find a professional to help you right away. Maybe the best is someone you don't know (so there is a reassuring distance) and get your blood tested too, sometimes depression can be caused or enhanced by off-balance hormones, or other factors.

Swoopie:
Thanks for trying to help out, but from your way of talking I guess you didn't experience much loneliness yourself. A Dr. Phil approach can work on normal people, but IMHO, it's not the right approach for the broken hearted and the lonely.

To all:
I think it's good to talk to well-meaning strangers about our problems like this, the distance actually makes it easier. But talking is only the first step.

I'm being reminded of an old erotic visual novel I played 10 years ago, but I'm unsure of the name, it may have had terms like "nocturne" or "dark side" in it but that may be a false memory. Anyway, in that game you play a man who gets trapped into a mysterious, enchanted mansion that refuses anyone who enters it to leave. Several people (mostly ladies of course) live in the mansion, next to each other without talking much to each other, all with their own emotional problems. In the end, you can leave with one of these people if you manage to resolve their problems and also those of your own.

So I feel a bit like we're all here trapped in this mysterious mansion of loneliness that won't let us go. That game, and it's music made me feel the incredible absurd and desolate loneliness of such a situation. And even if you manage to escape with the help of someone you found in that house, you'll still have to leave the others behind... In a sense, loneliness is almost mysterious.

And sorry for my long rant, again.

Kind Regards,

B.

[Swoopie]

I see your point, and I partially agree with it, right now though, I'd feel selfish to go search for happiness, if all I can bring to other people is my sadness. I need to work through my problems on my own, because ( quoting emi here I guess ) in the end I'm the only person that can deal with it, no one can help me deal with these problems or fix them for me. It is indeed a choise of perpetual moderate hurt, but it's manageable, I don't think I'd handle a sharp big hurt very well the way I am right now. So it's perhaps not really my choise, but at this point, it feels like the smartest thing to do.

Huh, maybe I'm in need of a female hisao in my life?

Why would it be selfish to pursue happiness? It's always the other person's choice to either help you with your sadness or keep you at a distance, I don't think it's selfish to look for friends. I understand what you say here and I empathize with that you feel you have to work through your issues alone. But solving your issues and talking about it are two different things. Ofcourse you have to 'solve' it by your own, but talking with people about it helps, at least that's what I think. You will have to reach the goal by yourself, but it doesn't hurt to have some people helping you on your journey towards that goal.

But, it's difficult, if there really is an overwhelming fear of being disappointed, I can imagine it would be very difficult to deliberately run that risk.

But, another question, what is your plan of working out everything alone? What are the steps you already took and what steps are you planning to take?

Mmm'm, I wonder about that myself. I don't think it's doing anything to the loneliness per se, I think it's because others are saying what they are experiencing, it makes me feel somewhat better to know I'm not alone with these problems, even if they're not exactly the same. It also feels good typing out my thoughts, the responses are great, but ultimately, I think what matters a lot is while I type this, things get sorted a bit better in my own head aswell.

Glad to hear that!

ps.: I also hope it's oké that this thread has derailed quite a bit, I kinda enjoy this talk we're having. I guess it does fit the hanako story line very well in general, and emi's aswell on certain points.

Yup, although it's related, the thread should be about the 'game'. If anyone feels we need to digress to a separate thread, we could do that...

[danyo]

I see your point, and I partially agree with it, right now though, I'd feel selfish to go search for happiness, if all I can bring to other people is my sadness. I need to work through my problems on my own, because ( quoting emi here I guess ) in the end I'm the only person that can deal with it, no one can help me deal with these problems or fix them for me. It is indeed a choise of perpetual moderate hurt, but it's manageable, I don't think I'd handle a sharp big hurt very well the way I am right now. So it's perhaps not really my choise, but at this point, it feels like the smartest thing to do.

Huh, maybe I'm in need of a female hisao in my life?

Why would it be selfish to pursue happiness? It's always the other person's choice to either help you with your sadness or keep you at a distance, I don't think it's selfish to look for friends. I understand what you say here and I empathize with that you feel you have to work through your issues alone. But solving your issues and talking about it are two different things. Ofcourse you have to 'solve' it by your own, but talking with people about it helps, at least that's what I think. You will have to reach the goal by yourself, but it doesn't hurt to have some people helping you on your journey towards that goal.

But, it's difficult, if there really is an overwhelming fear of being disappointed, I can imagine it would be very difficult to deliberately run that risk.

But, another question, what is your plan of working out everything alone? What are the steps you already took and what steps are you planning to take?

It probably isn't selfish, it might have the wrong word to use. I just don't want to burden anyone else with my misery, not only that, at this point, it's all I can offer, since being alone for so long, I have nothing to talk about. I have no hobbies, no intrests and no job anymore. All I can talk about right now is my emotional problems, and it's not something I wanna talk about to people I wanna befriend, I want them to know me as who I really am, not this empty shell I currently am.

I guess I'm not really doing it alone, I do go to a psychologist ( and she's a darn nice person and really helps out with everything so can't complain there ) but I also realise even the best psychologist can't really fix everything easely for you, they're there to guide you in the right direction, it'll take some time, but I do feel that it's the right path for me to be on right now.

[newnar]

I'm not trying to diss any one of you, but I'm just really envious of all of you, to be able to gather enough courage and leave the shroud of depression ...if I have the right idea of what you all have been posting.

I have been following this thread ever since it started, and though I often had urges to post replies, I really can't and I kept quiet. This post is a mistake I don't know if this is right I don't want to be alone but It like that kind of thorn where it sticks in ur thumb and it hurts like crazy to get it out Shit I can't share with you what I think I just don't want to go back to those experiences I have already numbed myself of but I know I'm just fucking bluffing myhself is it bad to bluff myself I don't want to be delusional but I think I'm delusional about my delusions I cannot run away from them but what you guys say are so true I'm a complete fucktard why am I doing this to myself I don't want to but it's really bad when I try to do something, anything about it and I don't wanna do anything anymore I'm so sick of everything I'm sick of myself I'm sick of my parents of my mates of everyone who sees me they look like they are looking at a degenerate i cant even say no when i see me in the mirror i'm not sure what i am doing when i come home everyday ever since ks my games dont hold the fire in the paper bag anymore my hand doesnt even click on the icons i used to love to click damn im spending so much on my subscriptions but i havent touched it in almost 2 months i have no idea what i am doing i need to tell myhself dont make me do things i dont want to

[Beoran]

Newnar,

You also gathered enough courage to confess your feelings to complete strangers. That's a first small step. I hate to sound condescending, but I think you can also have the courage take the next step, and start walking, at your own pace "out of the shroud" as you say...


As for this thread being derailed, I don't mind it, but, it might be a good idea to start a new thread, if people here agree, "Hanako's Broken Hearts Club" or so, so other people can find it easier to join in. Or maybe the original poster can change this thread's name? Or maybe an admin could do that? I'm sure there's many who have played or will play Katawa Shoujou and have similar experiences. The writers may not have expected such emotional responses, but it's to their credit that they created characters powerful enough to make us commiserate or recognize our own problems.

[danyo]

I'm not trying to diss any one of you, but I'm just really envious of all of you, to be able to gather enough courage and leave the shroud of depression ...if I have the right idea of what you all have been posting.

I have been following this thread ever since it started, and though I often had urges to post replies, I really can't and I kept quiet. This post is a mistake I don't know if this is right I don't want to be alone but It like that kind of thorn where it sticks in ur thumb and it hurts like crazy to get it out Shit I can't share with you what I think I just don't want to go back to those experiences I have already numbed myself of but I know I'm just fucking bluffing myhself is it bad to bluff myself I don't want to be delusional but I think I'm delusional about my delusions I cannot run away from them but what you guys say are so true I'm a complete fucktard why am I doing this to myself I don't want to but it's really bad when I try to do something, anything about it and I don't wanna do anything anymore I'm so sick of everything I'm sick of myself I'm sick of my parents of my mates of everyone who sees me they look like they are looking at a degenerate i cant even say no when i see me in the mirror i'm not sure what i am doing when i come home everyday ever since ks my games dont hold the fire in the paper bag anymore my hand doesnt even click on the icons i used to love to click damn im spending so much on my subscriptions but i havent touched it in almost 2 months i have no idea what i am doing i need to tell myhself dont make me do things i dont want to

Hey, if you read through my posts, I can assure you, I'm pretty much still shrouded in loneliness and depression. But, just coming out and say what's on your mind is a big step. Even if it's to "no one", it'll still help you sort your head out a bit. It does for me at least. You probably also noticed that not a single bad word has been said to anyone here in this thread, so you shouldn't be worried about that either.

[dunkelfalke]

I have been following this thread ever since it started, and though I often had urges to post replies, I really can't and I kept quiet.

You don't know how many times I've furiously typed a long post into this thread, just to close the browser window without submitting. What I've submitted is only a smart part of what I've actually written.
It is like they say, admitting that you have a problem is the first step, but there are many more steps to do yet after the first one.

[micechasekittens]

I know how it feels to be constantly alone and dealing with depression. Something I learned is that a part of me refuses to let go of the depression as odd as that sounds. It is like I've been depressed since I was little, even making serious attempts on my life so I find it hard to picture myself not depressed if that makes sense. It is like a comforting blanket due to its familiarity. I even push people away or just recede into my own world.

To let go of the past (still working on that) and force yourself to socialize more is difficult, but it helps. I use exercise and I don't drink anymore caffeinated beverages which takes the edge off the depression. Some people aren't affected by sugar and caffeine, but for me it would cause crying spells, despairing moods, panic attacks, and sapping of all energy. I still suffer depression, but I'm no longer crying to sleep all the time.

I also throw myself into my interests like writing and learning piano even when I don't feel like it. So many times I just want to browse the net and sleep all day, but that doesn't make me feel better. Push yourself to do things and create possible interactions and that will help your mood than dwelling on misery. Getting out there more helped me to meet a girl who is into me. She even has the short hair and glasses thing Shizune has going on.

^^ I'd happily join a broken hearted club, despite how ironic that sounds. I love chatting with similarly minded people via messengers and the like so anyone can drop me a pm if they want. I used to be a lot like Hanako, though without physical scarring save for my prominent nose that got a lot of negative attention. Oddly enough, traits that got me teased growing up (large nose, very pale, frail, small chest) are considered to be really cute here in Korea.