Synthus wrote:She has high expectations of her fellows and leads by example. It's not her bloody fault if they didn't tell her that they weren't interested in doing quite as much work as she does.
I am quite sure that she was told and chose to ignore it. That's why people left. Anyway, pushy people are a pain in the arse.
Dr. Robotnik wrote:tl;dr: groundless gripes, it's called being human.
So? There are all kinds of humans. Some aren't very likeable. There are probably more than enough people who couldn't stand me. I, on the other hand, can't stand Shizune and her obsession with competing on everything.
I don't recall that, to be honest. From what I gathered, she tried to make the Student Council more than a token symbol of student leadership by taking on more responsibilities. That alone would've driven out the slackers.
Pushy people who're determined to help you out of your funk become considerably less annoying in hindsight.
That second quote was me, by the way, not Dr. Robotnik. And you're missing my point, which was that humans aren't always usually internally consistent or completely rational.
Beyond the 'competition as flirting' aspect, I think the main reason she does it is to instigate a degree of investment from others. I find it endearing, but you obviously don't. Nothing wrong with that, you're entitled to your perspective.
Last edited by Synthus on Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
First things first, I liked Shizune *because* she is a strong woman, and I feel attracted by strong women. In fact she's quite more honest than most "strong" people I've met IRL in that her strength is real (even if this gets her into some social retardness and some other issues). In my experience, many times 'strong' people are balancing that they're very fragile on the inside, and as an insecure teenager I more than once fell in love with people whom I later discovered were just a facade. My first route was Emi, and all the time I was considering Shizune from a sexual perspective. I guess it is this thing I have for strong women.
On Shizune's path, I actually think there is an evolution on the way she behaves through it. It was actually fairly well done, and well, first time I played it I got the bad ending because I chose to comfort Misha, precisely because the event development had me (as Hisao) feeling like shit. I mean, the fact that she goes on as if nothing had happened after Hisao asks her to be his girlfriend, the total lack of intimacy, the 'rape' from which the most intimate moment is her hands playing with Hisao's, these all built up to a point in which I think the Misha decission wasn't in order to comfort Misha but in order to comfort Hisao, his need for some friggin' human contact after the disaster that is being shut down like that by Shizune when you get too close to her. I know I fucked up royally when comforting Misha but I can understand why Hisao would do that. Also its obvious that things would get worse, since Misha and myself as Hisao would end up feeling even worse after the comforting.
The route might be too long with just one decission to take along the way, and sometimes I felt a bit lost. It was quite different from Emi's route; in that route it all seemed too obvious and Hisao acted quite retarded, but in Shizune's route things were sometimes too complex or too little explained. Also, even though there was just one decission to take, at least it is quite a relevant one that makes you stop and reflect on how Shizune is making Hisao feel.
In some sense, I appreciate Shizune's attitude more than Emi when it comes to acting in life, because Shizune has some really deep commitment and force of will. Also because even though Shizune might be bossy and stuff, at the same time she's doing it for others, even if she is never thanked at all. I love this quote from her:
“The mark of great people is that they are daring, and that they can follow through [...] There is no point to potential if you don’t take the first step, and there is no point to that if you don’t keep going.” [...] “If you really wanted to escape, you would have take immediate action! This is how you know someone is serious; when they have no doubts, no regrets!”
Also, there is something I like a lot that is said almost in the end of her route, that "If you aren't always thinking big, thinking positive, [...] soon you won't be able to do anything because your power is going to be delegated to others piece by piece, and you'll be left with nothing.". It is a quote specific to the Council but I think it can be applied in a lot of fields in life.
Synthus wrote:Of course she's a bitch to Lilly. The two of them have been giving each other shit for so long that it's practically a reflex response. I'd wager that the only reason Lilly doesn't start first is because she has obvious difficulties with detecting Shizune's presence.
I can't agree with that at all. Do you really believe that provoking Shizune would be in line with Lilly's character in any way?
Last edited by Mysterious Stranger on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
| Can you see what I see? | To the end of the Waltz... | First stop, Nagoya! | Oh, come, lovely child! | To the World of Dreams | Pray to become starry sky tomorrow... | Please... forget about me... | No music, no future |
as i said b4 about why i like shizune ( am i feeding my ego if i quote myself ?? )
rydiafan wrote:
Shizune is the perfect example of loving someone for who they are not who you want them to be ... imo the beauty of Shizune 's story is she doesn't change to who the player wanted her to be ... she is still a bitch by the end of the game ... she know who she was at the start of game ... and wasn't gonna change ... you as that player had to change to love her , then decide if u wanted to to bond with her ... lilly , emi , hanako, misha and even rin changed in some little way to suit the needs of the player ... not shizune ... you had to follow her rules ... join the student counsil , work hard to make the festible go smoothly , learn to sign ... but each time u get her to smile or laugh felt like something to be proud of cause she is honestly thankful for the hard work did to be close to her ... and for that reason is why i think its the best story
i wanna add that yes the story imo is not as strong as hanako's or emi's ... and there is only one choice ... but is there a more important choice in the game ??
i can see why she would rub ppl the wrong way ... but except maybe hanako ... no othe character feels more complete then shizune ... both lilly and emi ( again imo ) are so flat emotinally ( for lack of a better word )
rydiafan wrote:i can see why she would rub ppl the wrong way ... but except maybe hanako ... no othe character feels more complete then shizune ... both lilly and emi ( again imo ) are so flat emotinally ( for lack of a better word )
Wrong. Calling any of the KS heroines "emotinally" flat is ludicrous.
And it's not like Shizune goes through any radical arcs herself, so... yeah. Lex says it all.
| Can you see what I see? | To the end of the Waltz... | First stop, Nagoya! | Oh, come, lovely child! | To the World of Dreams | Pray to become starry sky tomorrow... | Please... forget about me... | No music, no future |
Just 'cuz I have to ask as I've heard it a few times, but what exactly makes Shizune a "strong woman". More to the point what makes her that in relation to the others?
Beyond Hanako all the others seem to take what they want when they want just as much as Shizune, so I'm just not really seeing why "being strong" is some character trait of hers. Unless never saying "I love you" is what makes her appear so.
In any case I bet she's all bluster anyway, inside she's crying like a little girl.
"Iluvevery, single… one of ye… not you." - Lilly during another one of her drunken rampages.
rydiafan wrote:i can see why she would rub ppl the wrong way ... but except maybe hanako ... no othe character feels more complete then shizune ... both lilly and emi ( again imo ) are so flat emotinally ( for lack of a better word )
Wrong. Calling any of the KS heroines "emotinally" flat is ludicrous.
And it's not like Shizune goes through any radical arcs herself, so... yeah. Lex says it all.
wow i can have my own opinion ... to say im wrong is ludicrous
im not changing my opinion just because you think im wrong ... its the way i feel and how i see the devlopment of characters ...
if you don't like my opinion there is nothing i can do to please you ... there is no one way to view this game it's open to the interpation of the player ... and im sharing my opinion
and im not stating a fact its an opinion on how i see the game how can an opinion be wrong
Most of the "hate" really isn't, but is responded to as if it were. "Her story could be developed more? Why the hate? You just didn't understand it at all!" etc etc etc
Would you come with me if I ran off to be a pirate?
geekahedron wrote:Most of the "hate" really isn't, but is responded to as if it were. "Her story could be developed more? Why the hate? You just didn't understand it at all!" etc etc etc
encrypted12345 wrote:Jokes aside, they are just fighting back the hate. I'll ... um... just observe for a while.
I don't think anyone defending Shizune as a character thinks that her storyline is the next Dresden Files or anything.
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I can't agree with that at all. Do you really believe that provoking Shizune would be in line with Lilly's character in any way?
Notice how freaking passive-aggressive she can be? No, of course you didn't, because Lilly is absolutely perfect, shit rainbows and pisses double cream.
Seriously though, both of them are bitchy as hell to each other. Shizune just has a much poorer PR department.
