The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously

[Snow_Storm]

Yo, so there's a debate rather or not Hisao took advantage of Hanako during their little sex scene in her good end or what not and I just figured something out.

If Hisao honestly would had wanted to take advantage of Hanako, he would had been done it during her birthday party while she was drunk. If you remember, after her party in Lilly's dorm, Hisao had to help Hanako walk her to her room and when they got to her room, Hanako started flirting with Hisao and (it's implied) that she was making advances towards him. If Hisao was truly the rapists that every claims he was in her good end, he would had been taken advantage of her while she was drunk.

Case in point, Hisao, while a dumb kid, isn't a rapist and shit happens.

[Brogurt]

People change.

[youka]

Yo, so there's a debate rather or not Hisao took advantage of Hanako during their little sex scene in her good end or what not and I just figured something out.

If Hisao honestly would had wanted to take advantage of Hanako, he would had been done it during her birthday party while she was drunk. If you remember, after her party in Lilly's dorm, Hisao had to help Hanako walk her to her room and when they got to her room, Hanako started flirting with Hisao and (it's implied) that she was making advances towards him. If Hisao was truly the rapists that every claims he was in her good end, he would had been taken advantage of her while she was drunk.

Case in point, Hisao, while a dumb kid, isn't a rapist and shit happens.

he didn't want akira and lilly to think strage things, remember?

[Maakasu_Taihaku]

He didn't take advantage, or raped her.... he was confused by the mix messages, and him being a guy and never had a expirence like this before he went for it.....

He did say thinking back on it she didn't say no, but didn't say yes either. It was in Neutural, and i agree if he wanted to take adavantage, there was a few chances, but he respectivily didn't, Even though he said he didn't want Lilly and akira to think weird things he still wouldn't have done it, reading back over it you would get what i mean from what hes say during that whole part.

It might have been alittle bit of taking advantage of her... but not for the reason most people think.....it was not meant to takin advantage of anyone and It was far from Rape. Cause she did initate it in away and then he kissed her, but she did it because she was afraid of losing him remember, so in away she wanted to do it......just not for the right reasons, and it did make me feel bad afterwards. shes stronger than most think, If she was 100% against it, she would've had stop it

but people who claim rape, are just being trololols.

[hickwarrior]

but people who claim rape, are just being trololols.

I'm with you there, since I did play her story.

It's not rape, it was consensual, both just had the wrong idea. Not sure if this is a spoiler, but when you talk with hanako at the park, she said that making her do what she did that night would make Hisao stay with her forever. This is something that Hisao takes very personally and eventually emotionally collapses when he moved to hug her. In that end, they both shared their sadness. This is why people calling out rape just didn't make out that both the characters were feeling god awful of what they have done.

It's just stating the obvious, but I'm pretty sure that this would clear it up. Otherwise, haters gonna hate I suppose.

[Maakasu_Taihaku]

but people who claim rape, are just being trololols.

I'm with you there, since I did play her story.

It's not rape, it was consensual, both just had the wrong idea. Not sure if this is a spoiler, but when you talk with hanako at the park, she said that making her do what she did that night would make Hisao stay with her forever. This is something that Hisao takes very personally and eventually emotionally collapses when he moved to hug her. In that end, they both shared their sadness. This is why people calling out rape just didn't make out that both the characters were feeling god awful of what they have done.

It's just stating the obvious, but I'm pretty sure that this would clear it up. Otherwise, haters gonna hate I suppose.

Yea hopefully our posts help clear up things for some people who aren't to sure about waht happened, but like u said some are just going ot be haters....

[Woody Alien]

Just finished yesterday Hanako's route with good and bad ending.
Actually I'm feeling a bit worried, but not because of "the feels", rather the opposite: after reading a few pages of this topic, I was surprised because I didn't experience all the emotional turmoil many of you seem to have had.
It's not that I didn't like the route, I think it was well handled and Hanako is a very sweet and lovable character, but IDK... I played the bad ending right after the good one, so having Hanako telling me "I hate Lilly and you" minutes after opening up to Hisao and kissing him in public should have crushed me, but instead I felt sorry and disappointed, nothing more. I don't feel like crying or not wanting to play the other routes left.

I liked very much the description of Hanako and Lilly's friendship, it was touching, especially during the birthday party and Hisao & Hanako's visit alone to the city (cell phone scene), and their trip to the jazz club was possibly the high point of her path. "I'm here for you too..."
Seeing her popping up from under the bedsheets after her first night with Hisao, with her shy smile, was also extremely sweet.
Speaking of which... the H-scene. I'm not going to discuss it into detail, just saying that, while I didn't like it too much myself, it was not gratuitous. They are teens on their first experiences, It's meant to be awkward, plus Hanako didn't want to be considered a little child anymore and possibly thought that it was the only way to break that image. (Also, seeing detailed genitalia kind of weirded me out, strange since this is a eroge after all, but maybe I just wasn't expecting it)

The "breaking of the wall" scene... it was very powerful and realistic, but again I didn't cry or anything, just silently approved. Am I a monster?

One last thing: +100 bro points for Mutou and Miki, they really shined in this route and made me want to see more of them in the rest of the game, which sadly is impossible.

Okay, now off to Rin and Lilly's paths to complete the game.

[newnar]

Just finished yesterday Hanako's route with good and bad ending.
Actually I'm feeling a bit worried, but not because of "the feels", rather the opposite: after reading a few pages of this topic, I was surprised because I didn't experience all the emotional turmoil many of you seem to have had.
It's not that I didn't like the route, I think it was well handled and Hanako is a very sweet and lovable character, but IDK... I played the bad ending right after the good one, so having Hanako telling me "I hate Lilly and you" minutes after opening up to Hisao and kissing him in public should have crushed me, but instead I felt sorry and disappointed, nothing more. I don't feel like crying or not wanting to play the other routes left.

I liked very much the description of Hanako and Lilly's friendship, it was touching, especially during the birthday party and Hisao & Hanako's visit alone to the city (cell phone scene), and their trip to the jazz club was possibly the high point of her path. "I'm here for you too..."
Seeing her popping up from under the bedsheets after her first night with Hisao, with her shy smile, was also extremely sweet.
Speaking of which... the H-scene. I'm not going to discuss it into detail, just saying that, while I didn't like it too much myself, it was not gratuitous. They are teens on their first experiences, It's meant to be awkward, plus Hanako didn't want to be considered a little child anymore and possibly thought that it was the only way to break that image. (Also, seeing detailed genitalia kind of weirded me out, strange since this is a eroge after all, but maybe I just wasn't expecting it)

The "breaking of the wall" scene... it was very powerful and realistic, but again I didn't cry or anything, just silently approved. Am I a monster?

One last thing: +100 bro points for Mutou and Miki, they really shined in this route and made me want to see more of them in the rest of the game, which sadly is impossible.

Okay, now off to Rin and Lilly's paths to complete the game.

Maybe different people are just different and fall for different things. I can't understand why some fall head over heels for Emi too.

[hickwarrior]

Just finished yesterday Hanako's route with good and bad ending.
Actually I'm feeling a bit worried, but not because of "the feels", rather the opposite: after reading a few pages of this topic, I was surprised because I didn't experience all the emotional turmoil many of you seem to have had.
It's not that I didn't like the route, I think it was well handled and Hanako is a very sweet and lovable character, but IDK... I played the bad ending right after the good one, so having Hanako telling me "I hate Lilly and you" minutes after opening up to Hisao and kissing him in public should have crushed me, but instead I felt sorry and disappointed, nothing more. I don't feel like crying or not wanting to play the other routes left.

I liked very much the description of Hanako and Lilly's friendship, it was touching, especially during the birthday party and Hisao & Hanako's visit alone to the city (cell phone scene), and their trip to the jazz club was possibly the high point of her path. "I'm here for you too..."
Seeing her popping up from under the bedsheets after her first night with Hisao, with her shy smile, was also extremely sweet.
Speaking of which... the H-scene. I'm not going to discuss it into detail, just saying that, while I didn't like it too much myself, it was not gratuitous. They are teens on their first experiences, It's meant to be awkward, plus Hanako didn't want to be considered a little child anymore and possibly thought that it was the only way to break that image. (Also, seeing detailed genitalia kind of weirded me out, strange since this is a eroge after all, but maybe I just wasn't expecting it)

The "breaking of the wall" scene... it was very powerful and realistic, but again I didn't cry or anything, just silently approved. Am I a monster?

One last thing: +100 bro points for Mutou and Miki, they really shined in this route and made me want to see more of them in the rest of the game, which sadly is impossible.

Okay, now off to Rin and Lilly's paths to complete the game.

Well, it might be because you already had something on the other two routes. I had the same thing, where I didn't get the feels very badly because I had expended most of my 'feels' on two other paths beforehand, especially Lilly's path. Yea, it's heart warming and all, but it was just a story.

But that's just my experience. What do you think?

[Althamus]

I've just played through Hanako's good route, gonna go back and play through her Neutral and Bad endings later on.

I was really impressed with the route. I'm glad I didn't play it first, because I think Emi and Lilly's routes are more typical VNs. It surprised me when so much of this route was Hisao trying to work out how his relationship with Hanako was. Heck, they don't confess until the final scene of the arc. This wasn't bad, as it fitted with how Hisao saw Hanako and reacted to her, just surprising for me when I was expecting a confession at the end of Act 2 xD

I didn't think that the arc finished in a bad place. After all, in the other character's arcs, the main underlying problem they face is that there is some thing which is causing the characters to not be as close as they would otherwise be, and create discord and awkwardness between them. The end of the arc finishes with the main characters managing to identify the underlying problem, and deal with it satisfactorily (at least, on the good endings). Admittedly, the other arcs start the relationship between Hisao and the main character, and at a later date the underlying problem becomes evident, and normally the conclusion of the underlying problem signifies them heading off into the sunset together, whereas in Hanako's arc, the underlying problem prevents them from going out, and it's only after it is concluded that they can start going out properly. But I think this works, as after all, at this point Hanako has grown as a person, she's trying to stand on her own two feet and without the big thing that was driving them apart, it's assumed they will be able to continue a normal relationship. tbh, if the story did continue as it had done after that, it would give more closure and be a pleasure to read, but all the tension would have gone out of it. A bit like reading about how Sam and Frodo organised their garden after Sauron had been defeated. If you really want a epilogue, Corp_crud (the writer for the arc) has written one on his blog, head on over and read it. It's what I intend on doing next.

I thought the white knight theme was very good though. It felt very much like the kind of thing a teeneger would think and aim towards, and I felt like dancing when Lilly was like "...no, not how it works."

As an incidental, I don't wanna jinx things for my final arc, but I like that the stories so far have been obvious enough (to me) to know which points to take to get the good endings without cheating. The only time I came close to getting the bad ending was on Emi's route, but I was saved by Mischa (Mischa! <3)

Also, I don't get why people keep saying Hisao was a rapist. As people say, he didn't take advantage of Hanako when she was drunk. Yes, he wanted to prove to Lilly and Akira that he hadn't, but on the other hand, IMHO he could QUITE EASILY have slept with her and it been consensual, (if not entirely moral on his part). Yes, the next morning he would've had knowing glances from Lilly, but... so?
And likewise, when they actually slept together, Hanako initiated it (if you strip down almost naked in front of someone without clearly defined boundaries, it is obviously leading somewhere), and intended it to happen and never denied it. Yes, she was heavily letting him lead. No, that is not the same as rape. You might as well say that Emi raped Hisao the first ime they slept together, and would probably have more grounds for doing so.

I was really kinda shocked at seeing genitalia in her route though. Emi's route didn't even have any angles where you could see anything at all. Lilly and Shizune's routes both had angles where you might've been able to see something, but there was a tactfully placed hand or similar hiding things, and I was expecting Hanako's arc to have similar tactful hiding, and it kinda broke the fourth wall a bit when it didn't. I guess I'm used to seeing films etc without explicit genitalia in.

On the up side though, FINAL SCENE IN PARK SO MUCH. I don't can have feel left after. I don't know whether it's that I've JUST come from finishing the arc or what, but that scene made me cry so. much. and at the same time, feel so happy for them as well as feeling so... so sorry for them. One of the best-written scenes in the game so far as I stand right now.
Also, I don't remember which point exactly it was (I read the first half of the arc last night between 3am-7am when I couldn't sleep, so it's a little hazy) but at some point in arc 2-first half of arc 3, there was another part which made me feel so. so. sorry for Hanako, felt like my heart was going to burst /wrist

Probably my only major criticism of KS so far though is that the different arcs don't correlate. Mischa gets her hair cut in Shizune's arc, but has her drills up until the end of all the other arcs. Lilly is seen in Shizune's arc at Shizune's town house, but no mention of the trip is brought up in Lilly/Hanako's arc. There is a second festival in Shizune's arc, but no mention is made in anyone else's arc.
And all these things would have been so easy to fix as well. Throw in a "Huh, Misha's cut her hair. Strange." (although admittedly you could argue without Hisao's influence, her unrequited love would have continued). Lilly just had to mention a "I got invited to my cousin's house, but with you being here I decided to decline where I would otherwise have accepted" etc.
But it was very nice that Lilly and Hanako's arcs actually correlated properly. It felt really quite refreshing, and added another layer of realism to me.

Also, people are complaining that Hisao was largely superfluous in Hanako's route, and that as evidenced by Lilly's route, she would have fought her daemons herself. I kinda want to hold up a "that's the point.jpg" here.
Emi's problems were about how she was dealing with her tragedy, and not allowing friends to really know her. Shizune's was again, about reaching a compromise, not being "her way or the high way" and again about letting in. Lilly's was about whether she should choose family over her life. In all those, to an extent they need to be made by the heroines, but they can have support and help from their compatriots. Hanako's problems were that she couldn't face social contact. For Hanako, people attempting to help her start at a far lower point down the trust ladder than any of the other girls I've played, so there is obviously less that Hisao can do for her, short of force his help onto her (which I presume is roughly what will happen on her bad arc [guess]). What Hanako needs is for friends to be around her and support her, BUT NOT CARRY HER (goddamit!). To give her room to grow, without making her grow (Misha's minor help for example) or stifling her (Lilly). She doesn't need a BFF4lyf for this. She just needs a good friend, which is why IMHO in both Lilly's arcs and her own arcs, she grows very nicely. The romance at the end of her arc isn't a way of uncovering the underlying problem, or forcing Hisao to deal with the underlying problem, it's a reward for successfully putting Hanako into a situation where she can grow into a rounded human being.

All in all, really enjoyed the arc It doesn't have as much of a feel-good factor as Emi's or Lilly's, so I don't rate it quite as highly, but I was really impressed with the quality of the writing. I'd say in terms of the quality of the story, it probably ends up as the best written arc I have so far, although is sadly still third on my list due to what I look for in this kind of story (ie. basically Lilly's storyline). I can't wait to read Rin's storyline (it makes me gRin), because I've heard it is the best written in terms of quality. But doing so will mean I'll have finished KS and will then be re-reading the stories instead of reading them for the first time /wrist

Geez, I didn't expect I'd write so much. I did more for a sense of settling and consolidating the arc in my mind rather than explaining it to the internets, but gratz if anyone didn't just TL;DR it.

[hickwarrior]

Well, it might be hard for me to say this, but you have to look at the time frames all those stories are in. Shizune's has a longer time frame than usual, while Hanako's is very short in comparison. What happens is that shizune's story also looks after Tanabata, which you would've missed with Lilly's story. During Hanako's arc, Lilly's visiting her family in Scotland and the resolution happens during that time.

Anyway, this what I think about the time frame here.

[Althamus]

Hmm, it might be that I'm not familiar with Japanese festivals. I know Shizune's arc plays right up until they leave the school, and none of the other 3 I've played do that, but I got the impression that Emi's at least played out for quite a while, and the two festivals felt like they were quite close together in Shizune's arc (although it may admittedly just have been that nothing noteworthy happened between them).

When Lilly went away, I was talking about in Shizune's arc, Lilly goes to visit her uncle and cousins (Shizune, her brother and her father), which isn't mentioned in Lilly or Hanako's routes, althuogh again it might be that Shizune's route is just so damn long that that all happens after Lilly's route time arc finished.

Also, just finished Hanako's neutral and bad endings.

I think I'm probably one of the first people not to majorly /wrist at Hanako's bad ending. It might be that I would have had more feels for it if I'd played it just after finishing her good ending when I was still in more of a KS mood, but I actually thought her neutral ending was worse than her bad one. I just felt so. sorry for her in the neutral ending... Hisao and Lilly are apparently consigning Hanako to forever being their shadows basically. He makes the first move, as he always does, he does the first whatever as he always will... Going down that route I just see Hanako not growing at all, not becoming a person, always needing protection because she's always had protection, always looking to one or other of them for confirmation that she can do this or that something is ok... Hisao should get a frickin' dog if he wants something to rely on him. Wind forwards 5 years or whatever. They've gone through uni, Hanako probably went to the same one as one or both of them, Hisao now has the choice to marry her (because he's responsible for her, and can't exactly toss her out because she needs him), and she becomes basically a robot, relying more and more on him until she can't function without him. Or Hisao grows tired of her, and falls in love with someone else (he can hardly take care of her all his life, after all HE has a life to lead as well, and wants to love, and not just hang out with Hanako all the time), and she basically internally collapses because she's been trained for the last 5 years to hang off his apron strings, and most likely ends up in an asylum or something because she cannot cope with life.
And her wonderful personality that peeks through at times throughout the story will be stifled and lost as she devolves into a robot...
tbh, if I extrude the ending forwards in time as I have done, it is probably the most depressing ending out of the 4 arcs I have done so far. Not the saddest, or one that had me cry most, but I feel it kills her almost as much as Kenji's ending kills Hisao.

By contrast, her bad ending was bad in the normal sense of the word, in that Hanako throws out her only friends in the world. I'd imagine she'd give Lilly a chance, rather than immediately exclude her like Hisao... although having said that, as in her good arc she explains that before her friends in the past have sucker punched her, it wouldn't be surprising to find that she just cut Lilly out of her life because of association.
And yes, oh god, Hanako would just have cut out everyone in her life she cared about. But she showed some backbone to do it, and showed that she could stand on her own feet and could stand up for herself. This ending for her would be far. far. harder than her good ending. But I believe that if you wound on another 10 years, she would have grown into a rounded person, albeit maybe a little forever alone as well. I strongly suggest you read Corp_Crud's blog, which has a Hanako epilogue (and is Hanako's writer, so it's a canon epilogue), which basically is almost how I see her coming out of the bad ending as. It will take her time. But she's strong, and will eventually learn to stand on her own two feet.
Also. Hisao. Dick of the year for how he was acting in her room -_-

[Guest Poster]

I think Hanako's neutral ending actually puts Hisao's and Hanako's relationship in a permanent stasis with no long term developments ever. They remain friends, but never equals and nothing romantic ever develops between them. And yeah, in a way it's sadder than the bad ending since Hanako simply resigns to her status as Hisao's ward.

IS that fanfic by Crud canon, btw? It seems a bit off following Hanako's good ending, since it essentially implies that all the character development they went through throughout the 4 acts of KS was...well...fake in a way. (not to mention it seems weird Lilly simply stops existing when the plot requires it)

[newnar]

I think Hanako's neutral ending actually puts Hisao's and Hanako's relationship in a permanent stasis with no long term developments ever. They remain friends, but never equals and nothing romantic ever develops between them. And yeah, in a way it's sadder than the bad ending since Hanako simply resigns to her status as Hisao's ward.

IS that fanfic by Crud canon, btw? It seems a bit off following Hanako's good ending, since it essentially implies that all the character development they went through throughout the 4 acts of KS was...well...fake in a way. (not to mention it seems weird Lilly simply stops existing when the plot requires it)

IT IS NOT CANON DESU!!!!!!!!!!!

[Althamus]

I assumed it was since it was written by the writer who wrote Hanako's arc, but that was an assumption on my part