I found this on the TV Tropes fanfic recs page for KS and read the Google Docs version (good job on the music, btw). As expected, I loved it, though of course I'd like to see more of this, I know better than anyone what a pain in the ass it is to update a story. Especially if you aren't satisfied with earlier chapters. I spent years rewriting my handful of chapters over and over again, without ever moving forward. It wasn't until I put together an editing group that I could finally look at the finished product and say: “I have no desire to fix this, because nothing needs to be fixed.”
Not sure what your situation is with this story and your process for creating it. If you ever need someone to look it over with you and bounce ideas or whatnot feel free to reach out to me. I do a lot of that type of work with the OSaBC group (Mass Effect).
Otherwise, I’ll set up an alert for this on FFnet and hopefully I’ll get a ping for an update. Till then, take care.
Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
Well written, I have enjoyed what has transpired so far. New to KS, so catching up on things. I hope this is continued, but even if not it is well done and enjoyable.
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ProfAllister
- Posts: 509
- Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:49 pm
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
Okay, well, this is about 5 years after I initially expressed my intention to read the fic, and even at that it was pushed up the queue for various reasons, but regardless, here we are.
Given I spilled a lot of ink on the idea of feedback and how it should be given, time to put my money where my mouth is.
As you have been informed from all angles, the writing, qua writing, is solid - logical progression, general internal consistency, etc. But, as I'm sure you're aware, it's far from perfect.
I won't say that these are flaws per se, but I would certainly consider them areas for improvement:
On a tonal level, I'm afraid my own ability to convey my sense is somewhat limited, so please forgive me for speaking in mildly synaesthetic terms:
Hisao, Iwanako, and their old school are greys - urban, formal, routine, businesslike, urgent, normal. Yamaku and its denizens are colorful - rural, familiar, unpredictable, casual, laid-back, different. Hisao reacts to Yamaku by acquiring his own color; Iwanako, being an anti-Hisao, clings to her greyness.
Right off the bat, I'm struck (and not in a good way) by Iwanako's ready comfort with being on a first-name basis with near strangers. I'd expect her to be uncomfortable, or even irritated by this breach in protocol - she should be addressing them (and even thinking of them) in terms of their family names - "these people aren't my friends, and I wish they'd stop pretending they are."
This becomes a larger problem when there's no real tonal contrast - Yamaku should be different from back home. Home is grey, the hospital is grey, but Yamaku is colorful. Unfortunately, on the macro scale, much of the time you cover at Yamaku is just as grey as the hospital. This is a big point, so I'll get back to it in more detail. I will grant that, on the more personal level, you manage to achieve this sort of color contrast - all the scenes in Yamaku that feel "colorful" are pesonal interactions - Iwanako talking to Misha, Lilly and Hanako visiting Iwanako, Iwanako swimming with Aoi and Keiko, Momomi's criminally short scenes. Even the character of color is generally on-point: Misha, Shizune, and Momomi are jewel tones - bold, uncompromising, and a sharp contrast with grey; Emi and Rin are pastels - a bit softer, a somewhat acquired taste, but still contrast strongly with grey; Lilly and Hanako are earth tones (chromatic greys) - soft, gentle, and perfectly at home with grey.
The first half of the story especially (i.e., up until Hanako's visit in the hospital) simply has too much of this grey.
To build on this, I want to return to my earlier comment: while everyone else seems solidly in-character, one character from KS is depicted wildly out of character - the school itself. Your Yamaku is downright hostile and unwelcoming. This wouldn't be an issue if the unwelcoming aspect were all inside Iwanako's head (in fact,that would be a vast improvement); the problem is that you include objective evidence to confirm Iwanako's paranoia.
You are correct in noting that smaller, more insular communities are full of backbiting, innuendo, and suspicion of outsiders - often far more serious than the casual facelessness and insignificance of the city. But a key feature of this internal venom is that it's strictly internal. To the committed outsider (i.e., not an outsider trying to become a local), all they see is a big smile an "Y'all come back now, ya hear?" You never give Yamaku this friendly face. Iwanako may feel like everyone's staring at her, and there's no question they are, but they would never allow her to notice that they're staring. They're all smiles and "No need to be so formal, call me by my first name!". As I said above, "colorful." Iwanako's alienation shouldn't come from everyone seeing her as an outsider - it should be from her feeling like an outsider. Unlike Hisao, she doesn't want the color - she wants the comfortable greys she's had her whole life. To use your "Hisao-shaped hold analogy", your change in the behavior of the Yamaku students departs from the concept of a space that's perfect for Hisao in which Iwanako doesn't fit, and changes it to a "not Iwanako-shaped hole" - a space that is actively, rather than just passively, inhospitable to Iwanako.
In other words, if the idea you're trying to express is that Iwanako can't fit into Yamaku the way Hisao can, you can't derail Yamaku's open and welcoming facade. Iwanako's alienation needs to be because of Iwanako, not random chance or coincidence. Other students stare at her because she's a mid-year transfer student, not because she's dressed differently, but they did that to Hisao as well. The only reason Iwanako would "notice" is because she's imagining it, because she's self-conscious of her different uniform. Shizune gets frustrated with Iwanako's helplessness and suggests Mutou get involved, but she shouldn't give Iwanako the cold shoulder; Iwanako should try to minimise interaction out of fear that Shizune hates her (Shizune hates lack of effort/laziness far more than incompetence; the latter isn't necessarily the person's fault and can be helped).
And then we get to Iwanako herself. As you previously noted, she's the Anti-Hisao - Hisao likes books, Iwanako likes movies; Hisao's good at Science, but bad at History and English, Iwanako is good at History and English, but bad at science; Hisao likes girls, Iwanakao... also likes girls.
Now, it appears to be your intent, but Iwanako's a bit of a shallow egotistical unlikable bitch. That's all well and good, especially since character growth seems to be a goal you're working toward. Unfortunately, she seems inhumanly bitchy. As I read, the question increasingly came up: "Is there anything that Iwanako likes? And the answer came back more emphatically each time: No. She was part of the Tea and Ikebana Club, but it wasn't anything she really cared about so much as an inoffensive way to pass time. The same with movies, books, etc. We get an ever so mild implication that she might like animals/pets, but nothing concrete. She doesn't even have the slightest lament about missing some activity that used to bring her joy. In fact, the only thing she seems to care about at all is her appearance. To some extent, that could be chalked up to depression, except that means she's been depressed literally her entire life.
On top of that, we get to the issue of language as it refers to Iwanako's internal monologue. I love sesquipedalianism as much as the next pedant, but the fact remains that words have meaning, and (a point I often emphasise) narration is a manner of characterisation. In Iwanako's case, there is a disturbing tendency for her to use fancy words as a way of describing individuals with a clinical detachment. This came into relief most severely when Emi was described to have a "lachrymal" face - that's Patrick Bateman levels of emotional detachment. As such, especially in combination with the previously-noted issue of no actual likes, Iwanako's erudition begins to paint her as a sociopathic misanthrope. Given her near-obsession with keeping up appearances, it's almost like a body snatcher trying its best to pass as human. Add on the fact that the only human emotion we've really seen her express is anger, and Iwanako comes off as far more disturbing than I think you ever intended.
Finally, it's a little trivial in relation to the other comments above, but something that struck me about her second hospital visit is that a concussion, especially in light of the expressed symptoms, would categorise Iwanako as a Major fall risk - she wouldn't be allowed to get out of her bed (even to use the bathroom) without assistance. While I'd normally say that such logistical considerations don't need 100% adherence, this is a case where the restrictions would only serve to enhance the helplessness and isolation she feels, and there's little to no instance where freedom of movement would be relevant to the plot - if you're gonna put a character through hell, you may as well take advantage of all the tools available to you
Given I spilled a lot of ink on the idea of feedback and how it should be given, time to put my money where my mouth is.
As you have been informed from all angles, the writing, qua writing, is solid - logical progression, general internal consistency, etc. But, as I'm sure you're aware, it's far from perfect.
I won't say that these are flaws per se, but I would certainly consider them areas for improvement:
On a tonal level, I'm afraid my own ability to convey my sense is somewhat limited, so please forgive me for speaking in mildly synaesthetic terms:
Hisao, Iwanako, and their old school are greys - urban, formal, routine, businesslike, urgent, normal. Yamaku and its denizens are colorful - rural, familiar, unpredictable, casual, laid-back, different. Hisao reacts to Yamaku by acquiring his own color; Iwanako, being an anti-Hisao, clings to her greyness.
Right off the bat, I'm struck (and not in a good way) by Iwanako's ready comfort with being on a first-name basis with near strangers. I'd expect her to be uncomfortable, or even irritated by this breach in protocol - she should be addressing them (and even thinking of them) in terms of their family names - "these people aren't my friends, and I wish they'd stop pretending they are."
This becomes a larger problem when there's no real tonal contrast - Yamaku should be different from back home. Home is grey, the hospital is grey, but Yamaku is colorful. Unfortunately, on the macro scale, much of the time you cover at Yamaku is just as grey as the hospital. This is a big point, so I'll get back to it in more detail. I will grant that, on the more personal level, you manage to achieve this sort of color contrast - all the scenes in Yamaku that feel "colorful" are pesonal interactions - Iwanako talking to Misha, Lilly and Hanako visiting Iwanako, Iwanako swimming with Aoi and Keiko, Momomi's criminally short scenes. Even the character of color is generally on-point: Misha, Shizune, and Momomi are jewel tones - bold, uncompromising, and a sharp contrast with grey; Emi and Rin are pastels - a bit softer, a somewhat acquired taste, but still contrast strongly with grey; Lilly and Hanako are earth tones (chromatic greys) - soft, gentle, and perfectly at home with grey.
The first half of the story especially (i.e., up until Hanako's visit in the hospital) simply has too much of this grey.
To build on this, I want to return to my earlier comment: while everyone else seems solidly in-character, one character from KS is depicted wildly out of character - the school itself. Your Yamaku is downright hostile and unwelcoming. This wouldn't be an issue if the unwelcoming aspect were all inside Iwanako's head (in fact,that would be a vast improvement); the problem is that you include objective evidence to confirm Iwanako's paranoia.
You are correct in noting that smaller, more insular communities are full of backbiting, innuendo, and suspicion of outsiders - often far more serious than the casual facelessness and insignificance of the city. But a key feature of this internal venom is that it's strictly internal. To the committed outsider (i.e., not an outsider trying to become a local), all they see is a big smile an "Y'all come back now, ya hear?" You never give Yamaku this friendly face. Iwanako may feel like everyone's staring at her, and there's no question they are, but they would never allow her to notice that they're staring. They're all smiles and "No need to be so formal, call me by my first name!". As I said above, "colorful." Iwanako's alienation shouldn't come from everyone seeing her as an outsider - it should be from her feeling like an outsider. Unlike Hisao, she doesn't want the color - she wants the comfortable greys she's had her whole life. To use your "Hisao-shaped hold analogy", your change in the behavior of the Yamaku students departs from the concept of a space that's perfect for Hisao in which Iwanako doesn't fit, and changes it to a "not Iwanako-shaped hole" - a space that is actively, rather than just passively, inhospitable to Iwanako.
In other words, if the idea you're trying to express is that Iwanako can't fit into Yamaku the way Hisao can, you can't derail Yamaku's open and welcoming facade. Iwanako's alienation needs to be because of Iwanako, not random chance or coincidence. Other students stare at her because she's a mid-year transfer student, not because she's dressed differently, but they did that to Hisao as well. The only reason Iwanako would "notice" is because she's imagining it, because she's self-conscious of her different uniform. Shizune gets frustrated with Iwanako's helplessness and suggests Mutou get involved, but she shouldn't give Iwanako the cold shoulder; Iwanako should try to minimise interaction out of fear that Shizune hates her (Shizune hates lack of effort/laziness far more than incompetence; the latter isn't necessarily the person's fault and can be helped).
And then we get to Iwanako herself. As you previously noted, she's the Anti-Hisao - Hisao likes books, Iwanako likes movies; Hisao's good at Science, but bad at History and English, Iwanako is good at History and English, but bad at science; Hisao likes girls, Iwanakao... also likes girls.
Now, it appears to be your intent, but Iwanako's a bit of a shallow egotistical unlikable bitch. That's all well and good, especially since character growth seems to be a goal you're working toward. Unfortunately, she seems inhumanly bitchy. As I read, the question increasingly came up: "Is there anything that Iwanako likes? And the answer came back more emphatically each time: No. She was part of the Tea and Ikebana Club, but it wasn't anything she really cared about so much as an inoffensive way to pass time. The same with movies, books, etc. We get an ever so mild implication that she might like animals/pets, but nothing concrete. She doesn't even have the slightest lament about missing some activity that used to bring her joy. In fact, the only thing she seems to care about at all is her appearance. To some extent, that could be chalked up to depression, except that means she's been depressed literally her entire life.
On top of that, we get to the issue of language as it refers to Iwanako's internal monologue. I love sesquipedalianism as much as the next pedant, but the fact remains that words have meaning, and (a point I often emphasise) narration is a manner of characterisation. In Iwanako's case, there is a disturbing tendency for her to use fancy words as a way of describing individuals with a clinical detachment. This came into relief most severely when Emi was described to have a "lachrymal" face - that's Patrick Bateman levels of emotional detachment. As such, especially in combination with the previously-noted issue of no actual likes, Iwanako's erudition begins to paint her as a sociopathic misanthrope. Given her near-obsession with keeping up appearances, it's almost like a body snatcher trying its best to pass as human. Add on the fact that the only human emotion we've really seen her express is anger, and Iwanako comes off as far more disturbing than I think you ever intended.
Finally, it's a little trivial in relation to the other comments above, but something that struck me about her second hospital visit is that a concussion, especially in light of the expressed symptoms, would categorise Iwanako as a Major fall risk - she wouldn't be allowed to get out of her bed (even to use the bathroom) without assistance. While I'd normally say that such logistical considerations don't need 100% adherence, this is a case where the restrictions would only serve to enhance the helplessness and isolation she feels, and there's little to no instance where freedom of movement would be relevant to the plot - if you're gonna put a character through hell, you may as well take advantage of all the tools available to you
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
There's way too much going on in my head so bear with me if I ramble.
First, I've enjoyed reading this fic a lot despite Iwanako being a self-involved 18 year old who doesn't know anything. Typical teenager stuff. I've only been on this forum for 3 weeks or so and I stumbled across Downix's take on this first. Very different interpretation than yours. It's quite satisfying reading a story where depression is at the forefront and it come across as believable and relatable. Granted, as someone who has chronic depression, it's extremely frustrating seeing someone keep it all inside and hide the emotions they're feeling. Surprise, that's about the quickest way to go into a depression-death-spiral. It's very believable and understandable considering she's a high school student and hasn't had the most supportive upbringing (I can relate) but I don't deal with that anymore because, as mentioned, depression-death-spiral. Congrats. If you've had some personal experience with it, it shows in your portrayal. If not, I guess that's even more impressive.
Other than your update schedule (which you've mentioned is because life is hell) and the question of if this is a "dead fic" (which you have made exceedingly clear isn't the case) I don't have much to criticize. Everything that comes to mind seems intentional or has to do with hanging plot threads which will work themselves out in time. I would have mentioned Shizune seeming OOC, but then she went and gave Iwanako the note. It'll be interesting to see how Misha handles what seems to be a crush on Iwanako. From what we know, the only experience she's had with that kinda crashed and burned and now she's best friends with them. As a straight male, seeing LGBT characters being written well is always a joy and a glimpse at a world with which I have little experience. Looking forward to when life lets you continue this.
First, I've enjoyed reading this fic a lot despite Iwanako being a self-involved 18 year old who doesn't know anything. Typical teenager stuff. I've only been on this forum for 3 weeks or so and I stumbled across Downix's take on this first. Very different interpretation than yours. It's quite satisfying reading a story where depression is at the forefront and it come across as believable and relatable. Granted, as someone who has chronic depression, it's extremely frustrating seeing someone keep it all inside and hide the emotions they're feeling. Surprise, that's about the quickest way to go into a depression-death-spiral. It's very believable and understandable considering she's a high school student and hasn't had the most supportive upbringing (I can relate) but I don't deal with that anymore because, as mentioned, depression-death-spiral. Congrats. If you've had some personal experience with it, it shows in your portrayal. If not, I guess that's even more impressive.
Other than your update schedule (which you've mentioned is because life is hell) and the question of if this is a "dead fic" (which you have made exceedingly clear isn't the case) I don't have much to criticize. Everything that comes to mind seems intentional or has to do with hanging plot threads which will work themselves out in time. I would have mentioned Shizune seeming OOC, but then she went and gave Iwanako the note. It'll be interesting to see how Misha handles what seems to be a crush on Iwanako. From what we know, the only experience she's had with that kinda crashed and burned and now she's best friends with them. As a straight male, seeing LGBT characters being written well is always a joy and a glimpse at a world with which I have little experience. Looking forward to when life lets you continue this.
I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing
Character Impressions:
Misha>Emi=Hanako=Lilly=Shizune=Rin
I wrote things!
The Sound of Silence - Shizune one-shot
Pilgrimage - A Subversion of Fate - Hisao sans heart attack (Uncancelled)
PB and Bananas (Post Rin good ending one-shot)
Character Impressions:
Misha>Emi=Hanako=Lilly=Shizune=Rin
I wrote things!
The Sound of Silence - Shizune one-shot
Pilgrimage - A Subversion of Fate - Hisao sans heart attack (Uncancelled)
PB and Bananas (Post Rin good ending one-shot)
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
I just wanted to say that I love that this has as many pages as a finished fic and even more XD
Also that it was really good and life comes first and shit.
Also that it was really good and life comes first and shit.
I am a human person.
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
I just recenly learned of this fanfic, and after finally getting around to binge through what's there, I just want to say I love it. I wish there was more, of course, but when life gets in the way, it can hardly be helped.
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asdfghjkl;';'
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:03 am
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
I'm currently walking down memory lane and suffered through the torment that is using the search bar on forum sites when only knowing keywords. Sad to see this has been entirely removed. Hope the author knows that despite how unhappy they are with it now, at the time this story was entertaining enough for people like me to go looking for it again 10 years later!
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
I can fully understand wanting to move past an old piece of work, but it's a shame that you removed the whole thing rather than just leaving it their for posterity sake. While one always wants to be able to grow, it's also nice to be able to look back and see how you used to be. Besides that, there are quite a few people that truly enjoyed it
Not Dead Yet
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emmjay
- Posts: 474
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:14 am
- Location: Western North Carolina, physically at least
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
I totally agree, Oddball. Leaty should have just gone with her original idea of plastering "DEADFIC DEADFIC THIS IS DEADFIC" across the top of the first and subsequent posts.
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
FWIW, this is still available on AO3, though you do need an account to read it.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/20635 ... rs/4485663
https://archiveofourown.org/works/20635 ... rs/4485663
Scarred Muse Hanako and Rin.
Avenues of Communication: Shizune suffers an accident.
Home: Hanako & Hisao at University, sharing an apartment with their friend Lilly (on Ao3).
One-shots
Re: Iwanako: Mean Time to Breakdown {updated 2015-4-1}
Well I realise this comment is coming more than a little late, and probably won't be seen by anyone, let alone the author (blame it on me losing my login details for a few years) but I think it is truly a shame that this fic had to end like this.
Of course there was never any obligation to finish the story, and I can understand feeling less than proud about older work, but regardless of how your feelings towards this story changed, and any flaws it may have had, it was still one that I enjoyed greatly, and has meant a lot to me over these past 10+ years.
So while I may disagree with the way this story was "concluded", I can still earnestly say thank you for the time and effort you put into what was published, and I wish you all the best for now and in future endeavors.