flubbernuggets101 wrote:(My order will probably be Hanako, Lilly, Emi, Shizune, Rin*)
He he he... Hehehe BWAHAHAHA
That's what I said (although Rin and Shizune were switched.) No one thinks much of Rin until they play through her, since she seems to be well adapted. Without spoilers I'll say just one thing: bring tissues.
Last edited by Broomhead on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rin. Her bad ending really hurts, but it's quick. Her neutral ending goes on and on, and just tore me apart all over. It hurts more than the bad ending really. Her good ending is really, really hard too, but the end of the good ending is really worth it. I went through it again last night. It is just emotionally draining. Really cathartic. Ancient Greece had nothing on Rin's story.
In my last playthrough (taking it slow, no more than an hour a day) Rin's good end hurt bad. The A#1 rule of Yamaku os that you're not helpless, you're not your disability, but in the good end Rin seduces Hisao by making herself helpless. It hurt to imagine how lonely she must be in order for her to debase herself like that.
Liminaut wrote:In my last playthrough (taking it slow, no more than an hour a day) Rin's good end hurt bad. The A#1 rule of Yamaku os that you're not helpless, you're not your disability, but in the good end Rin seduces Hisao by making herself helpless. It hurt to imagine how lonely she must be in order for her to debase herself like that.
That's one of the things that makes Rin's route so difficult. I remember those feels.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end. Main Index (Complete)—Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/Akira • Hideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of Suzu • Sakura—The Kenji Saga. "Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)
Liminaut wrote:in the good end Rin seduces Hisao by making herself helpless. It hurt to imagine how lonely she must be in order for her to debase herself like that.
You've asserted this before, and I disagree more than ever that that's what she's doing. It implies a level of Machiavellian calculation I can't possibly imagine coming from Rin. She was just feeling lost about it, she went for a walk because sometimes that helps, she ignored that it was raining as she is wont to do, she eventually went to him because what else is there to do about it, and… what ensued was bound to ensue. She's not sitting there thinking "ah, the perfect chance to waif it up so I can trick him into loving me".
Also, it's kind of insulting to her to imply that letting him do anything for her is to "debase" herself. Is she not allowed to seek solace like anyone else?
Atario wrote:Also, it's kind of insulting to her to imply that letting him do anything for her is to "debase" herself. Is she not allowed to seek solace like anyone else?
I don't think she is debasing herself deliberately. She's broken, and in that sense 'debased' I suppose. Hisao is seduced, but not because she's seducing him; it's because he doesn't know what else to do.
Post-Yamaku, what happens? After The Dream is a mosaic that follows everyone to the (sometimes) bitter end. Main Index (Complete)—Shizune/Lilly/Emi/Hanako/Rin/Misha + Miki + Natsume
Secondary Arcs: Rika/Mutou/Akira • Hideaki | Others (WIP): Straw—A Dream of Suzu • Sakura—The Kenji Saga. "Much has been lost, and there is much left to lose." — Tim Powers, The Drawing of the Dark (1979)
Liminaut wrote:Rin seduces Hisao by making herself helpless. It hurt to imagine how lonely she must be in order for her to debase herself like that.
...What.
Rin didn't make herself helpless, and she certainly didn't have some elaborate scheme to seduce Hisao. She merely revealed her own emotional vulnerability to Hisao, that is, she revealed she cared. Allowing Hisao to dry her off added an element of physical vulnerability that further emphasized her emotional vulnerability. Being vulnerable and being helpless are far from the same thing.
Also, being wet does not count as being helpless unless you're tied up and drowning.
someguy1294 wrote:
Also, being wet does not count as being helpless unless you're tied up and drowning.
Or tied up and aroused.
Pretty helpless then.
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<MishaBot> Aww... I miss Cyclaptop...
<Retrograde> Shut up Misha, you whore
<Retrograde> You say that about everyone
Liminaut wrote:in the good end Rin seduces Hisao by making herself helpless. It hurt to imagine how lonely she must be in order for her to debase herself like that.
someguy1294 wrote:
Also, being wet does not count as being helpless unless you're tied up and drowning.
Or tied up and aroused.
Pretty helpless then.
I like the cut of your jib.
I'm slowly falling in love with you and coffee. The user, not the drink. I try to stay away from too many mind-altering substances.
"I don’t want to be here anymore, I know there’s nothing left worth staying for.
Your paradise is something I’ve endured
See I don’t think I can fight this anymore, I’m listening with one foot out the door
And something has to die to be reborn-I don’t want to be here anymore"
someguy1294 wrote:Rin didn't make herself helpless, and she certainly didn't have some elaborate scheme to seduce Hisao. She merely revealed her own emotional vulnerability to Hisao, that is, she revealed she cared. Allowing Hisao to dry her off added an element of physical vulnerability that further emphasized her emotional vulnerability. Being vulnerable and being helpless are far from the same thing.
Absolutely this. Revealing that level of vulnerability is extremely trusting, and certainly closer than she's ever allowed anyone to be to her. It was heart wrenching to see it though, and the images made it even harder.
Let me explain why I think Rin's good ending is so painful.
Start with the scenes before that, in "Problems of Self-Referential Logic" and "Raison d'Etre". Hisao and Rin have two nasty arguments, perhaps the most painful scenes in KS. Two people that fundamentally care about each other but can't help but hurt each other with words. The arguments are painful enough that when Rin comes to Hisao's door after the rain, he says "I wish seeing her would evoke some more emotion in me...". Clearly at this point Hisao doesn't have a lot of feelings for her.
So what does Rin do? She's soaking wet, and says she needs help getting out of her clothes because Emi's gone. I don't believe she actually needs help. In general, people without arms take a great deal of pride in not needing help. There are tools and techniques for managing things. In RIn's specific case -- if she needs help getting undressed what was she planning on doing that evening when she was ready for bed? For that matter, how did she get dressed in the morning?
When Hisao starts undressing Rin, she makes the first move of nuzzling up against his hand. Throughout, Rin is the initiator. However, take a good look at RIn's face as Hisao is undressing her. That's not the face of somebody sharing a close moment with a friend. That's the face of a woman in a lot of emotional pain and in deep despair.
So: I think Rin was walking in the rain, desperately lonely, when she realized she needed someone to be with, specifically Hisao. Hisao and Rin had been working towards painful understanding, and he was probably closer to her than anybody else had been in her life. Despite the painful, hurtful arguments the two had had in the previous days. In the previous argument Hisao says he doesn't think that he can be RIn's friend any more, so he needs to be her love. She lies to him to get him to take her clothes off in the hopes of starting a romantic love, which they do.
Machiavellian? No, just a desperate painful loneliness driving Rin into her first adult love.
Liminaut wrote:Let me explain why I think Rin's good ending is so painful.
I can see the logic behind that. Makes sense.
*Keels over*
Anyways... methinks that's kinda your interpretation, and therefore a headcanon. I always saw Rin as a bit too go with the flow for anything long-term in terms of planning. That, and I probably don't want to believe.
