Random KS Discussion

[Zarys]

And, that is a sign of one of two things.

1. Hanako sucks at controlling her emotional reactions to things in public... but, unlike something like Lilly's confession, this was clearly planned on her part, and she was anxious about it (it wasn't a snap reaction, she had time to think about it, and was getting a little worked up about it), and very much in control of her actions
2. Hanako has begun to give zero fucks whatsoever of what society thinks of her

Seriously, kissing in public is a massive taboo, and this is from Hanako, someone who's hypersensitive to social cues, and knows damn well what she did as far as social implications. And she doesn't get anywhere near that level of giving zero fucks in Lilly's route.

There's also the possibility that Hanako's involvement in the newspaper club is purely to get out of Lilly and Hisao's way (or, even, finding it too painful to see Hisao with Lilly every day, and putting distance between herself and them to reduce the pain). She's always been able to do things for other people more easily than she can do them for herself. Basically, she's quite possibly faking growth, in Lilly's route, until she makes it.

Why when you say exactly what I said, you are listened seriously and i am taken for an idiot ?

[Megumeru]

I personally think Lilly's overprotectiveness is only a small part of it. The most major breakdown she had in her own route came through the revelation that Lilly and Hisao had been looking into throwing her a party...which had no babysitting aspects to it whatsoever and still caused a panic attack.

I think a good argument against the theory that Lilly's actively been hampering Hanako's growth is the fact that Hanako and Lilly didn't even know each other during the whole first year of high school and despite the fact that there was no "babysitter" around, Hanako wasn't exploring her potential or making new friends or doing anything other than hanging out in her library corner and avoiding all interaction between herself and the rest of the student body.

What Lilly excels in is offering company, safety and comfort to others and those traits are also what caused Hanako to initially seek her out. What she lacks in is pushing and challenging Hanako to grow beyond the status quo. Hisao eventually becomes the catalyst for challenge in Hanako's route while the newspaper club becomes the challenging factor in Lilly's route. There are several points in her own route where Hanako is seen trying to prove herself to Hisao in some way or another.

I think in order to stretch her boundaries, Hanako needs two things: a source of comfort and safety and someone who challenges her. Without challenge, there's no growth, but without safety she'll be afraid to try new things because she won't have anyone to fall back on. Meaning her friendship with Lilly on its own is unlikely to help her advance, but at the same time that doesn't mean Lilly doesn't play a very important role in Hanako's life.

It's a small part of it, no less.

But when you accumulate all that small part and has it going for most of their high school history, then it becomes a central point. Not really, but...I cant' find the right word for it. Hanako's first year in Yamaku (converting it to US-standard is...year 9 I think?) doesn't grant her any friends because she doesn't seek out--understandable, considering it's her new school and all. I don't discredit Lilly and her babysitting entirely since I do believe her little 'care' for Hanako boosts her self-esteem a bit, enough for her to seek out new friends in Lilly's route. But, by the time Hanako and Lilly is in their 3rd year (when Hisao joins in the Yamaku crew), it is way overdone and is acting more or less as Hanako's 'safe' inhibitor.

And I'm guessing Hanako actually did attempt to prove herself to Lilly, the same way she does to Hisao (albeit differently, I think); it's just how Lilly actually takes it is entirely different to how Hisao actually did.

Also, i believe Hanako's birthday happened at around the same day when she burned her house down and got herself that scar--isn't that what the party is all about, I believe? The party in Lilly's route is her farewell party and that does not generate any panic attack from her. Anyway, the party and her birthday. That's quite a traumatic memory, even when your friends want to celebrate your birthday party, if you have something really bad that happened in the same day (either you burn your house down, your parents are dead, you become batman, etc.), your thoughts would most likely gravitate towards that tragedy instead of thinking 'hey, it's my birthday!'

Which is why I believe her panic attack on her route about the party is all about; it reminded her of the day she got the scars and everything that comes with it, thus she's not too keen on celebrating it. Which in turn it kinda went on the 'wrong' end of its purpose.

Not really. The end of Hanako's route happens before Lilly even gets back from Scotland, yet she's ready for a cheeky public kiss by then.

Ah, I disregarded and forgotten her route on that one--my mistake. Hisao's an acting catalyst that actually brought Hanako to challenge her past so true, she recovers a lot faster in her route (well, not fully recovered, but she has a start going which is nice)

[bhtooefr]

First year in a Japanese high school would be the same age as 10th grade in an American high school. (Working backwards, you turn 18 in both third year and 12th grade, usually. Second year and 11th grade, first year and 10th grade. Yes, there's other discrepancies here with age, because Lilly should be in her first year of university based on her age.)

Lilly didn't move into the dorms until second year, and Hanako and Lilly didn't meet until after Lilly moved in.

Also, Hanako claims that her problem with her birthday is purely because of how everyone faked caring about her for one day, then went back to treating her like garbage. And, cpl_crud wrote a fic about the fire, set in winter: http://cplcrud.wordpress.com/4ls-era-fa ... 93-future/

Obviously some details changed since that fic, but for what doesn't conflict, it forms my headcanon. (Hanako's mother being a freelance architect is also an interesting one.)

[Silentcook]

stuff concerning the thread's legitimacy

Yeah, I dunno... the wild tangents are no great shakes, and I believe that the concentration of posting here resulted in people going "tl;dr lol" for the first or second time in the forums' history.

¯\(°_o)/¯

[ParagonTerminus]

107 pages! Didn't expect this to take off so well in such a short time.

stuff concerning the thread's legitimacy

Yeah, I dunno... the wild tangents are no great shakes, and I believe that the concentration of posting here resulted in people going "tl;dr lol" for the first or second time in the forums' history.

¯\(°_o)/¯

Well, the whole point is that this is a thread of "oh hey say random things that aren't worth making a full thread about," and thus will incur randomness and the occasional derailment like no other. But hey, these threads are found on practically every forum, and they tend to survive simply for their constant relevance.

[bhtooefr]

Consider threads like this a relief valve for posts that aren't really worthy of a thread, but are going to get made anyway, I'd say. That's how it works on other forums I'm on that have a "random discussion" thread.

[Broomhead]

Yeah, not to be snooty the day I got back, but if we could just move all the "Does x have y psychological defects." here that'd be great. Then I could take

Hello and welcome to the forums! Just a coupla tips:
Read the rules here!

Off of my clipboard and just say hiyas or something like that. And I wouldn't feel like a jerk when that's the last post before the thread gets locked.

[Khalego]

if we could just move all the "Does x have y psychological defects." here that'd be great.

If you could not be a backseat moderator, that'd be great... It's not as if those threads are against the rules so you can just say "hi" to newcomers anyway.

[Broomhead]

If you could not be a backseat moderator, that'd be great... It's not as if those threads are against the rules so you can just say "hi" to newcomers anyway.

That was separate from the similar threads thing, and my most recent post with that clip was just going to be "welcome." Also, white-knighting complex.

I just think that they deserve an entire thread. It'd be like if I made a thread every time I imagined snuggling one of the girls, thought about how I was similar to a girl, got in another play through, and saw someone who reminded me of a girl. I can put that stuff here since it may only get 1-3 posts in response (or none as the case may be). Alternately, some of the things that are here become prolific enough that they should get their own thread.

That's just my opinion though. Take it or leave it.

[ParagonTerminus]

If you could not be a backseat moderator, that'd be great... It's not as if those threads are against the rules so you can just say "hi" to newcomers anyway.

That was separate from the similar threads thing, and my most recent post with that clip was just going to be "welcome." Also, white-knighting complex.

I just think that they deserve an entire thread. It'd be like if I made a thread every time I imagined snuggling one of the girls, thought about how I was similar to a girl, got in another play through, and saw someone who reminded me of a girl. I can put that stuff here since it may only get 1-3 posts in response (or none as the case may be). Alternately, some of the things that are here become prolific enough that they should get their own thread.

That's just my opinion though. Take it or leave it.

You mean that this should be a sort of natural quality control? All-topics-that-recieve-enough-discussion-get-their-own-thread sort of thing?

[Liminaut]

It's been a prevalent belief that Hanako's birthday coincides with the day of the fire. I used to believe this as well until it was pointed out to me that there is no evidence in canon to support this, and the apocryphal story is that the fire happened during winter.

In Lilly's path, when Hisao phones her about help with Hanako Lilly says that she doesn't know why Hanako has such problems during her birthday, and she believes that it has something to do with the fire. I think that's where the idea that the birthday problems are fire-based started, from Lilly's path.

This comment also tells us a lot about Lilly and Hanako's friendship: Hanako actually didn't share that much with Lilly. I have sad feels now.

Something else about Hanako: recall that at the start of the VN, Hanako has such deep social issues that she isn't able to check out of Aura-Mart by herself, and needs a white knight to rescue her from the clutches of the dread checkout clerk. She's one messed up kid, and what she really wants is to be able to help other people out sometimes. That's what she says at the end of the pool hall outing, anyway.

[Broomhead]

Yes and no, but mostly yes.

Threads of conversation that start here and get 1-3 pages of devoted conversations? Yes. The idea is less that this should be a launching point, but random thoughts could be put here. For example: Has anyone else ever noticed that Emi'd probably be friends with just about everyone except Shizune? Maybe not Hanako so much, but otherwise she's socially adept enough. It all came down to the hall positions.

[ParagonTerminus]

It's been a prevalent belief that Hanako's birthday coincides with the day of the fire. I used to believe this as well until it was pointed out to me that there is no evidence in canon to support this, and the apocryphal story is that the fire happened during winter.

In Lilly's path, when Hisao phones her about help with Hanako Lilly says that she doesn't know why Hanako has such problems during her birthday, and she believes that it has something to do with the fire. I think that's where the idea that the birthday problems are fire-based started, from Lilly's path.

This comment also tells us a lot about Lilly and Hanako's friendship: Hanako actually didn't share that much with Lilly. I have sad feels now.

Something else about Hanako: recall that at the start of the VN, Hanako has such deep social issues that she isn't able to check out of Aura-Mart by herself, and needs a white knight to rescue her from the clutches of the dread checkout clerk. She's one messed up kid, and what she really wants is to be able to help other people out sometimes. That's what she says at the end of the pool hall outing, anyway.

It actually took me this long to realise: Aura-Mart is a covert developer self-insert.

Damn, I must have tunnel vision or something.

[Liminaut]

My vague and unreliable memory is that "Auramart" wasn't actually Aura's idea, but everybody else on the dev team loved the idea.

[ParagonTerminus]

My vague and unreliable memory is that "Auramart" wasn't actually Aura's idea, but everybody else on the dev team loved the idea.

I bet Aura was actually skipping with joy at the prospect, just that it's unspoken law that "thou shalt always be modest"