Long term relationship with Rin? Be honest...

[Disposition]

/topic

[slagman5]

Wouldn't you if you have to deal with her strange shenanigans? It's like an on-off relationship and indication throughout her route with the codeine and the things in the atelier.

The next day, she acts as if nothing happened. I don't think we can really blame Hisao entirely for his confusion since I think we might actually react just about the same.

It would be frustrating for sure, but she explains why she does it fairly well. It's certainly not a conventional explanation that she gives, but it's one that makes sense pretty much immediately if you're putting minimum effort into listening to her.

She basically says she has too many things going on at the moment to go steady in a full-on relationship. Remember, she specifically told Hisao not to show up again, and when he did, he walked in on her masturbating and helped her finish on his own accord basically because he felt awkward not doing anything. She allowed it so it's not entirely his fault, but it was fairly apparent that she was hoping something like that wouldn't happen until after the art show, and when it did she didn't want it to happen again until she was less busy with her work.

Also, people are quick to point out that Rin has been doing her muddled thing for a long time, which justifies Hisao snapping... except he knew exactly what she was like when he decided he wanted to be with her, and it was apparent soon afterwards that she wasn't going to be changing that any time soon. Why would he suddenly expect her to get crystal clear for him? It makes no sense to actively pursue a relationship with somebody that you know has a major trait that annoys you and then get mad at them for not adjusting that trait to be more convenient for you.

There's compromise of course, but he doesn't seem interested in that. He wants clarity, he wants it right then, and then he blows up when he doesn't get it. Before then, he doesn't exactly make it clear that he wants Rin to work on being more clear either. The very same conversation he first confronts Rin about her "ridiculously confusing" way of speaking is the conversation he chooses to loose his cool after.

That gives Rin roughly... no time at all to make adjustments. During the most stressful period of her life, one that is visibly draining her. One that Hisao pushed her to put herself in despite clear signals that she wasn't interested.

He did it because he wanted the best for Rin, so it's not like he's evil, but it's fairly apparent before the art show even becomes an issue that she herself realizes that it won't be good for her and the way he basically says, "This is what I'd want if I were you so you should have to want it too" doesn't exactly come off as super respectful of her wishes. Heck, it almost mirrors Nomiya, the difference being that Nomiya actually was in it almost totally for himself while Hisao at least genuinely cared about Rin's future.

Thanks for your input man. I agree with pretty much 99.9% of what you wrote there...

[Megumeru]

Wouldn't you if you have to deal with her strange shenanigans? It's like an on-off relationship and indication throughout her route with the codeine and the things in the atelier.

The next day, she acts as if nothing happened. I don't think we can really blame Hisao entirely for his confusion since I think we might actually react just about the same.

It would be frustrating for sure, but she explains why she does it fairly well. It's certainly not a conventional explanation that she gives, but it's one that makes sense pretty much immediately if you're putting minimum effort into listening to her.

She basically says she has too many things going on at the moment to go steady in a full-on relationship. Remember, she specifically told Hisao not to show up again, and when he did, he walked in on her masturbating and helped her finish on his own accord basically because he felt awkward not doing anything. She allowed it so it's not entirely his fault, but it was fairly apparent that she was hoping something like that wouldn't happen until after the art show, and when it did she didn't want it to happen again until she was less busy with her work.

Also, people are quick to point out that Rin has been doing her muddled thing for a long time, which justifies Hisao snapping... except he knew exactly what she was like when he decided he wanted to be with her, and it was apparent soon afterwards that she wasn't going to be changing that any time soon. Why would he suddenly expect her to get crystal clear for him? It makes no sense to actively pursue a relationship with somebody that you know has a major trait that annoys you and then get mad at them for not adjusting that trait to be more convenient for you.

There's compromise of course, but he doesn't seem interested in that. He wants clarity, he wants it right then, and then he blows up when he doesn't get it. Before then, he doesn't exactly make it clear that he wants Rin to work on being more clear either. The very same conversation he first confronts Rin about her "ridiculously confusing" way of speaking is the conversation he chooses to loose his cool after.

That gives Rin roughly... no time at all to make adjustments. During the most stressful period of her life, one that is visibly draining her. One that Hisao pushed her to put herself in despite clear signals that she wasn't interested.

He did it because he wanted the best for Rin, so it's not like he's evil, but it's fairly apparent before the art show even becomes an issue that she herself realizes that it won't be good for her and the way he basically says, "This is what I'd want if I were you so you should have to want it too" doesn't exactly come off as super respectful of her wishes. Heck, it almost mirrors Nomiya, the difference being that Nomiya actually was in it almost totally for himself while Hisao at least genuinely cared about Rin's future.

Have a cookie and a 'Shizune seal of approval' for excellent input and character analysis. It's one of the reasons why Rin is best-girl no. 2.

Yeah, I agree with that 99%
My conclusion after going through her route after a second-third playthrough is about the same. I wouldn't say Rin is leading Hisao by the nose like a donkey with a carrot--she trusts Hisao, but she couldn't afford the extra baggage during her most stressful period. Hisao's not helping it since he tries to rush it.
Also, have a feeling that Rin actually tries to make Hisao happy by listening and following his advice of going througj with the art gallery.

[brythain]

Which is why Hisao is so frustratingly realistic. He himself is heavily drugged (look at his list!) and slow to figure things out, and doesn't get our observer detachment bonus. Yes, I agree with that spunky analysix.

[KeiichiO]

This thread is really making me want to replay Rin's route, since it's been over a year. I only remember key scenes. Everything else is stored too deep into my mind to remember.

[Mirage_GSM]

Hindsight doesn't come into play here since this is the things I thought while I played it through the first time and reading his responses to her...

Even if you disregard all the hindsight stuff you had the luxury of reading all of this. You could pause whenever you wanted to pore over what Rin said to find the meaning - and apparently you still didn't get all nuances of her meaning on the first readthrough.
You also had the advantage of not actually being stressed by being strung along for weeks or frustrated by your inability to understand Rin.

Now I usually think of myself of a very calm individual, but I can't say for sure I wouldn't have reacted the same way when I was Hisao's age. It's very easy to make mistakes in your first relationships - or even in later ones - and even more so if the girl you're dating - or try to date - is Rin.

[brythain]

Even if you disregard all the hindsight stuff you had the luxury of reading all of this. You could pause whenever you wanted to pore over what Rin said to find the meaning - and apparently you still didn't get all nuances of her meaning on the first readthrough.
You also had the advantage of not actually being stressed by being strung along for weeks or frustrated by your inability to understand Rin.

Now I usually think of myself of a very calm individual, but I can't say for sure I wouldn't have reacted the same way when I was Hisao's age. It's very easy to make mistakes in your first relationships - or even in later ones - and even more so if the girl you're dating - or try to date - is Rin.

And this is the other half I agree with.

[slagman5]

Hindsight doesn't come into play here since this is the things I thought while I played it through the first time and reading his responses to her...

Even if you disregard all the hindsight stuff you had the luxury of reading all of this. You could pause whenever you wanted to pore over what Rin said to find the meaning - and apparently you still didn't get all nuances of her meaning on the first readthrough.
You also had the advantage of not actually being stressed by being strung along for weeks or frustrated by your inability to understand Rin.

Now I usually think of myself of a very calm individual, but I can't say for sure I wouldn't have reacted the same way when I was Hisao's age. It's very easy to make mistakes in your first relationships - or even in later ones - and even more so if the girl you're dating - or try to date - is Rin.

Again, speak for yourself. If you feel you would react the same way, perfectly fine. We don't all have the same tolerance levels as every one else. I'm a very... average to slightly below average looking guy and I'm not that tall, so trust me, I get that situation a lot where a girl would seem to love to be with me, but then when it comes to me bringing up being more, "friends" is all they want from me. I don't throw a fit, I don't freak out, I don't get mad at them, or anything like that. Sure I get let down, but no matter what I feel on the inside, I don't react the way Hisao does in this comic.

And I never needed to pause and think about what she said. The reason why I'm discovering so much more to help my argument now that I went through that scene again is because I flip through these panels fairly quickly, and I had no issue understanding the first time around, and RIGHT away when she says to not talk about that "now" that there was a time stipulation, meaning to just be patient and talk about it later... I honestly don't get how this is so hard to understand. But anyway, like I've said, that's just me. I know maybe you might be different (no better or worse, just different priorities) and would not be able to put up with her crap, which is fine, but don't assume that means we all would be like that and the only reason some of us are saying otherwise is because we are only reading it. I know how I deal with real-world frustrations. I know myself, and you know yourself. So let's keep it at that.

[Mirage_GSM]

I'm not sure if you're really replying to my post, because I never said a word about what you would have done. I simply pointed out the differences between such an encounter in real life and reading about it in a VN. If you say you would have understood her instantly, who am I to argue against that. Maybe you do have empathy way beyond the average of guys Hisao's age.

I've heard the "Let's stay friends" line a few times myself, but so far I've luckily never been in a situation like Hisao's in with Rin. (I make it a point to spring that question before getting intimate with a girl, though, so I manage to avoid that particular mess Hisao got himself in.)

If you get a clear answer - or maybe even an evasive one - it certainly isn't a reason to throw a fit or get mad, but... Well, what Rin does has been described a few times in this thread already, so I probably don't need to repeat that.

[Khalego]

I honestly don't get how this is so hard to understand.

Because she's unclear. There isn't even a clear time stipulation there. "I can't talk about it now." does not say anything about time or talking about it later. It just says she can't now. That's either "I can't talk about it now, but I can talk about it later." or "I could talk about it before, but now I can't."

One is a time stipulation. The other is blocking him out. And given Rin's behavior leading up to that exchange, the latter is more likely to be the case. It wasn't the case but again, a violently frustrated teenager whose been jerked around for weeks on end by some difficult redhead might reach that conclusion.

[slagman5]

I honestly don't get how this is so hard to understand.

Because she's unclear. There isn't even a clear time stipulation there. "I can't talk about it now." does not say anything about time or talking about it later. It just says she can't now. That's either "I can't talk about it now, but I can talk about it later." or "I could talk about it before, but now I can't."

One is a time stipulation. The other is blocking him out. And given Rin's behavior leading up to that exchange, the latter is more likely to be the case. It wasn't the case but again, a violently frustrated teenager whose been jerked around for weeks on end by some difficult redhead might reach that conclusion.

Um, again, let's just agree to disagree because to me whenever someone says "now" at the end of a sentence, then that sentence applies to... now... call me weird. If she didn't want to ever talk about it, "can't talk about that" would have sufficed. But again, you can continue to believe what you wish...

[Oddball]

I honestly don't get how this is so hard to understand.

Because she's unclear. There isn't even a clear time stipulation there. "I can't talk about it now." does not say anything about time or talking about it later. It just says she can't now. That's either "I can't talk about it now, but I can talk about it later." or "I could talk about it before, but now I can't."

One is a time stipulation. The other is blocking him out. And given Rin's behavior leading up to that exchange, the latter is more likely to be the case. It wasn't the case but again, a violently frustrated teenager whose been jerked around for weeks on end by some difficult redhead might reach that conclusion.

Um, again, let's just agree to disagree because to me whenever someone says "now" at the end of a sentence, then that sentence applies to... now... call me weird. If she didn't want to ever talk about it, "can't talk about that" would have sufficed. But again, you can continue to believe what you wish...

Of course keep in mind that if you said to Rin that you'd talk about it later, she'd be start asking yoiu if you're able to see into the future.

[Khalego]

If she didn't want to ever talk about it, "can't talk about that" would have sufficed.

True. And if she wanted to talk about Hanako, "Hanako" or "the burned girl" or "that chick with the long dark hair" would have sufficed but she still calls her the "mystery toilet girl" at some point. A lot of much simpler language would suffice with Rin but she rarely ever uses any of it (kind of her whole problem, y'know) so it's not exactly a stretch.

And I'm not going to call you weird. I'm going to call you smug because that's what that is, and it's already tiresome. "Oh, WELL, I understood it was meant this way but hey, maybe I'm just WEIRD!" We get it. Anyone who interprets something differently than you is a goddamn weirdo but you're avoiding saying that directly by twisting the language around. Yes, good for you, you interpreted a bit of fictional dialogue a certain way. You want a cookie? Cut that shit out...Please.

[slagman5]

If she didn't want to ever talk about it, "can't talk about that" would have sufficed.

True. And if she wanted to talk about Hanako, "Hanako" or "the burned girl" or "that chick with the long dark hair" would have sufficed but she still calls her the "mystery toilet girl" at some point. A lot of much simpler language would suffice with Rin but she rarely ever uses any of it (kind of her whole problem, y'know) so it's not exactly a stretch.

And I'm not going to call you weird. I'm going to call you smug because that's what that is, and it's already tiresome. "Oh, WELL, I understood it was meant this way but hey, maybe I'm just WEIRD!" We get it. Anyone who interprets something differently than you is a goddamn weirdo but you're avoiding saying that directly by twisting the language around. Yes, good for you, you interpreted a bit of fictional dialogue a certain way. You want a cookie? Cut that shit out...Please.

Um, yes, calling Hanako the mystery toilet girl is exactly the same thing. You are so right. How did I ever miss this...

Next topic...

[Megumeru]

If she didn't want to ever talk about it, "can't talk about that" would have sufficed.

True. And if she wanted to talk about Hanako, "Hanako" or "the burned girl" or "that chick with the long dark hair" would have sufficed but she still calls her the "mystery toilet girl" at some point. A lot of much simpler language would suffice with Rin but she rarely ever uses any of it (kind of her whole problem, y'know) so it's not exactly a stretch.

And I'm not going to call you weird. I'm going to call you smug because that's what that is, and it's already tiresome. "Oh, WELL, I understood it was meant this way but hey, maybe I'm just WEIRD!" We get it. Anyone who interprets something differently than you is a goddamn weirdo but you're avoiding saying that directly by twisting the language around. Yes, good for you, you interpreted a bit of fictional dialogue a certain way. You want a cookie? Cut that shit out...Please.

I don't know if you realized, but 'Hanako' is the name of a female toilet ghost that haunts the furthest stall of the girl's toilet. Commonly 'found' in junior schools. So her using the 'mystery girl toilet' is Rin poking fun at her name--I know I did that to a friend of mine way back in middle school.

When you think about it, we've pretty much seen the die-hard supporters of Shizuists, Lillithians, and Rin-dins; all that's left are those that come from Emites and Hanakins.