Yamaku Book Club (20220124 Dish Washing)

[Oscar Wildecat]

On the tech: This device was just approved for sale, so in 20, 30, 45 years? Who knows what's possible.

On Rin/Miki: Given what we know of her from the VN, there is no real basis to pair Miki with any girl. Yet, we seen plenty of Miki and Suzu, Miki and Molly, and even a Miki and Akira (I think) floating out there. In this particular case, I thought the setup was was believable, given the personalities involved.

On the story: I've been a big fan of the whole After the Dream series myself. In fact there are a few minor details, such as Rin being from Tsushima, and Nurses name, are personal headcanon.

[brythain]

I like Rin's route in this fanfic because they make her personality spot on. They also use the really cool symbolism of the butterfly. It's the only route I actually like in After the Dream.

Actually, I've always wondered what makes Rin's personality seem 'spot on'.

I found this from the comments to the script:

Code: Select all

#some notes about how Rin's dialogue goes, should probably have written this down earlier.
#I've been playing around with different styles for her to somehow communicate her state of mind through dialogue style. Currently (and this seems to be the final solution), there are two distinct "modes"
#Whenever she's in free-form stream-of-consciousness blabbering mode, she uses awkward grammar badly and has extreme trouble with idioms, sayings and figurative speech. And she talks in short sentences. Many of them in sequence.
#otoh when she pulls herself together and becomes overtly lucid, she starts talking without contractions and uses way more words per sentence than necessary to communicate whatever might currently be swirling inside of her mind.
#these are not hard and fast rules, more like general guidelines thus legibility and smooth flow of text always overrides them. Edit as you see fit really.

But what really goes on in Rin's headspace—that's tough to imagine. And to imagine character development away from her 'core personality' over a period of roughly 60 years, that was the hardest part for me.

[poopooface]

"They" is the only universally accepted gender neutral pronoun for a human in English. ("It" is considered dehumanizing, "ze" and others get a "wtf does that even mean" reaction

Or you could just use the given name O.o

I just used what was easier.

[Mahorfeus]

Technology is certainly advancing quickly, that much I cannot argue with. I'm a bit guilty of watching those shows where Michio Kaku (that guy is awesome) rants on about all the things that will be possible in the future. Those in themselves often fail to suspend my disbelief, so I think that is an issue regarding my own bias rather than any fault of brythain's. The truth is, as has already been said, all of those things are possible. I suppose I just don't buy the Nakai Foundation's accomplishments being something that would be these characters' legacy. But I digress. That is probably the challenge of writing a tale that leaps through time across different perspectives. And here I just watched Cloud Atlas.

As for Rin and Miki, in the context of the story, the relationship can be justified. I suppose it's just connected to my broader issue with how intimately tied together all the girls' lives are past high school. Does that make sense? Egh. Maybe I'm just needlessly picky. Not even nitpicky, just picky.

At any rate, I'm just ranting at this point. It might not be for me, but brythain's got something good going on here.

[brythain]

I suppose I just don't buy the Nakai Foundation's accomplishments being something that would be these characters' legacy. But I digress. That is probably the challenge of writing a tale that leaps through time across different perspectives. And here I just watched Cloud Atlas.

How do you think -I- felt when they told me about the Nakai Foundation?

As for Rin and Miki, in the context of the story, the relationship can be justified. I suppose it's just connected to my broader issue with how intimately tied together all the girls' lives are past high school. Does that make sense? Egh. Maybe I'm just needlessly picky. Not even nitpicky, just picky.

At any rate, I'm just ranting at this point. It might not be for me, but brythain's got something good going on here.

Naw, picky is fine. That kind of issue is always worth worrying about, from the author's perspective. But last night I was at the annual dinner of a professional association, and I could see from my seat at least 20 people I'd known for 30 years or more. So… just about possible. Some of the girls' lives developed along lines very similar to those of women I've known (and who were there last night…)

That said, the mosaic approach does allow me to go down some darker alleyways and less-trodden paths in the larger story of those characters. I hope it's been a good ride overall.

[Blank Mage]

Unfortunately, I don't have time to write my usual 4 paragraph long comment, so I'll have to summarize. With bullet points!

-I found it pretty difficult to discern what's going on at several key points, which would normally be pretty aggravating. Rin's storytelling is so disjointed and tangential that it's almost indecipherable. Anywhere else, this would be infuriating, but after a few paragraphs, I figured it out; it's indicative of Rin's own inability to understand or connect with the events of her own story. She's as lost as we are, spending most of her time watching the rest of the cast as they blaze through life, and she doesn't know how to stop them. In a way, it makes her segment the saddest, and the worst part is I can see how it would happen. Easily.

-I agree with the general consensus that the future is a liiiiitle too futuristic here, but my primary complaint is that it seems to all be due to the advances made by a single company. I mean, technology doesn't happen that way, is all. Also, I feel like 'Hisao is good at science' has for some reason blown to Einstein-en proportions in several fan fics. I mean, I'm good at science, too, but I doubt I'm going to create the entire Dues Ex line of prosthetic limbs and brain implants.

-The sudden introduction of Miki seems odd, given how little impact she had on other routes, but that's about all I have to say on that topic.

[brythain]

Unfortunately, I don't have time to write my usual 4 paragraph long comment, so I'll have to summarize. With bullet points!

-I found it pretty difficult to discern what's going on at several key points, which would normally be pretty aggravating. Rin's storytelling is so disjointed and tangential that it's almost indecipherable. Anywhere else, this would be infuriating, but after a few paragraphs, I figured it out; it's indicative of Rin's own inability to understand or connect with the events of her own story. She's as lost as we are, spending most of her time watching the rest of the cast as they blaze through life, and she doesn't know how to stop them. In a way, it makes her segment the saddest, and the worst part is I can see how it would happen. Easily.

-I agree with the general consensus that the future is a liiiiitle too futuristic here, but my primary complaint is that it seems to all be due to the advances made by a single company. I mean, technology doesn't happen that way, is all. Also, I feel like 'Hisao is good at science' has for some reason blown to Einstein-en proportions in several fan fics. I mean, I'm good at science, too, but I doubt I'm going to create the entire Dues Ex line of prosthetic limbs and brain implants.

-The sudden introduction of Miki seems odd, given how little impact she had on other routes, but that's about all I have to say on that topic.

Thank you for those comments. I'm sincerely very glad you picked up on my intention to showcase Rin's inability to understand her own mindscape.

I'd just like to point out that it's not the advances made by one company; rather, it's a typical POV interpretation of how it might appear that one company is dominant in a specific sector (think Toyota) whereas the overall or global scenario would certainly look different. There might be many companies offering similar products, but the Japanese would tend to buy Nissan, or Hakamichi, or whatever seems to be relatively good and 'local'. Not to mention these are people with ties to that family, so to speak. And Hisao is nowhere implicated in the research at all, if you look at it; dang, I thought I'd removed most of that particular tendency! He's just a very competent science teacher.

All that said, I'm happy that you weren't too infuriated by it all. If I ever write more of this stuff, any improvements will be due to the honest comments of people like you. The faults will continue to be my own.

[Blank Mage]

All that said, I'm happy that you weren't too infuriated by it all. If I ever write more of this stuff, any improvements will be due to the honest comments of people like you.

Wait, wait, you misunderstood. I said it would be infuriating! Rin has extenuating circumstances. More importantly, the story is already established. You don't need a clear understanding of the events, because they've already been explained from other points. You chose to focus exclusively on what makes Rin, Rin. It all works, because Rin herself doesn't know how to tell a story. No fury involved! I support your narrative decision-making.

(Now, if I had to figure out the plot based solely on Rin's perspective, that might have been a little frustrating.)

[brythain]

All that said, I'm happy that you weren't too infuriated by it all. If I ever write more of this stuff, any improvements will be due to the honest comments of people like you.

Wait, wait, you misunderstood. I said it would be infuriating! Rin has extenuating circumstances. More importantly, the story is already established. You don't need a clear understanding of the events, because they've already been explained from other points. You chose to focus exclusively on what makes Rin, Rin. It all works, because Rin herself doesn't know how to tell a story. No fury involved! I support your narrative decision-making.

Argh, re-reading your comment, yes, that's my mistake. Thank you, and that vote of support is a nice thing to have too!

[dewelar]

Sorry I haven't really participated this week, but I haven't found myself with much for comments beyond what's already been said and what I posted in the story thread when it was posted a few weeks ago.

However, I have found that I do want to expand my thoughts on the Rin-Miki relationship. The reason I find it plausible is that I picture Miki as one of those precious few people in life who honestly doesn't give a crap who you are, what you look like, how you talk, how you think, and so forth. Miki will always be Miki around you. That is something that Rin would value highly. Yes, their relationship wouldn't be traditional in any sense of the word, but damn if I can't picture it vividly in my head.

[brythain]

Sorry I haven't really participated this week, but I haven't found myself with much for comments beyond what's already been said and what I posted in the story thread when it was posted a few weeks ago.

However, I have found that I do want to expand my thoughts on the Rin-Miki relationship. The reason I find it plausible is that I picture Miki as one of those precious few people in life who honestly doesn't give a crap who you are, what you look like, how you talk, how you think, and so forth. Miki will always be Miki around you. That is something that Rin would value highly. Yes, their relationship wouldn't be traditional in any sense of the word, but damn if I can't picture it vividly in my head.

I think you've nailed it as far as author intention is concerned. I wondered who Rin might be 'with' at various stages of her life, and the strangest thing happened as I went through the suspect list. *click* — I must admit I was as skeptical as some of the others here, with many of the questions (is Miki manipulating Rin, do they actually get along, is there anything beyond the physical etc) that they came up with. But it actually works out beautifully, as both Miki and Rin will testify, one bluntly, one peripatetically.

[Sea]

Alright, time to take a turn. Asofar, we've mainly covered the 'normal' type of fics, but nothing to crack or macabre, etc. Would anyone have any interest in such things? Ill draw the line at "With regards . . . ." and Xan's madness story as the opposite ends of the spectrum, anything more is to submit to utter entropy. Or ya know, we could be a normal bookclub, but who wants that?

EDIT: this is by 2nd 666th post, I wonder if now is the time to go into the satanic Kenji story . . . . nah.

[AntonSlavik020]

I'm not usually a fan of crack fics, but there are some that are entertaining. I say why not.

[Darkerling]

So after finally deciding to join the KS forums, I saw the "Book Club" and since it seemed like a cool/fun idea to join in on.

So before posting my thoughts on "After the Dream: Rin's Story" let me say this "I did NOT read any of the the other parts of the "After the Dream" series, which in hindsight might not have been the best idea...

----------

So although at parts it took a bit (or a lot) of work to understand what was going on, I think all of the scenes were quite understandable even without having read the other "After the Dream" series. I found it easier to understand then by continuing to read on. I felt that not completely understanding what was going on was good for a Rin point of View FanFic.

I also like the way the sentences felt Rin in structure such as, having lots of short choppy sentences, and some really detailed & long Metaphors.

Although it would have been nice to see more details of Miki & Rin's relationship, I feel that what is shown fits Rin's way of thinking and her own not really understanding of it. It also feels like its a good pairing since "Miki is Miki, and Rin is Rin."

Overall, I really liked loved "Rin's Arc". An excellent "feels flowing" piece of work. My Favorite line: The "Bedtime" Story.

... now I need to read the rest of the series...

[brythain]

So after finally deciding to join the KS forums, I saw the "Book Club" and since it seemed like a cool/fun idea to join in on.

So before posting my thoughts on "After the Dream: Rin's Story" let me say this "I did NOT read any of the the other parts of the "After the Dream" series, which in hindsight might not have been the best idea…

*grin* it's OK, but you're very welcome to read the rest.

So although at parts it took a bit (or a lot) of work to understand what was going on, I think all of the scenes were quite understandable even without having read the other "After the Dream" series. I found it easier to understand then by continuing to read on. I felt that not completely understanding what was going on was good for a Rin point of View FanFic.

I also like the way the sentences felt Rin in structure such as, having lots of short choppy sentences, and some really detailed & long Metaphors.

Although it would have been nice to see more details of Miki & Rin's relationship, I feel that what is shown fits Rin's way of thinking and her own not really understanding of it. It also feels like its a good pairing since "Miki is Miki, and Rin is Rin."

Overall, I really liked loved "Rin's Arc". An excellent "feels flowing" piece of work. My Favorite line: The "Bedtime" Story.

... now I need to read the rest of the series...

Thank you very much for those comments. Do enjoy the rest of the writings in our fanfic library!