Yamaku Book Club (20220124 Dish Washing)

[Oscar Wildecat]

When Hisao Was Rin is definately on my personal list of headcanon. It is a very nice distillation of what I envision a post-good end Hisao and Rin relationship to be, right down to the innocent (and not-so-innocent) bystanders caught in the cross-talk.

[Mahorfeus]

I'm glad that this one got brought up. I read it when it first came out and just sort of lost track of it since it never occurred to me to comment on it. The fact that Oddball authored it slipped my mind as well.

I can honestly say that it was absolutely adorable. Oscar hit the nail on the head - this strikes me as how their day to day relationship would be. Hisao accepts Rin's strangeness for what it is, and in this case, even revels in it. He acknowledges that he still doesn't fully understand her, but seems comfortable with the fact.

[Maristo]

So, any other thoughts on the story rather than the punctuation in it?

Well, I wasn't originally going to post on this because I don't feel I have a great handle on Rin in general, but since you asked...


So I strongly dislike RIn. The Rin arc in KS was by far my least favorite, for two main reasons. First, Hisao seems like a total jackass for a significant portion of the route. Second, I cannot comprehend Rin at all. I understand that RIn is supposed to be abstract, confusing, and generally incomprehensible at times, and that Hisao's jackassery is due in part to his frustration about the lack of clear communication. For this reason, I find it hard to critique Rin in a literary sense. It's not that I think the character is poorly written, uninteresting, or out-of-place, but more that I can't engage as fully in her story arc because I would never pursue a person like RIn myself, and even if I did, I'd never act like Hisao did while pursuing her. Even after getting her "good" ending, Rin still left me in a state of brow-wrinkled frustration.

I explain my distaste of Rin because I once again found myself confused after reading your story. This time, though, it was because I very much liked Rin! I really enjoyed the interplay between Rin and Hisao, and although I definitely got the impression that Rin was still an abnormal and abstract person, I felt much more capable of identifying and engaging with her. This kind of role-playing banter is something I could see myself doing with a person like Rin, and so I also felt more attuned to your take on Hisao's behavior towards Rin. All in all, I really enjoyed the story and it made me smile more times in 15 minutes than I had in the several hours I spent slogging through Rin's original route.

I read the story last night, and as I thought about how to contribute to a discussion on it, I realized that the most notable part of it for me was the huge disparity in how I felt towards Rin and Hisao in your short, when compared to the original route. It made me wonder if perhaps your take on Rin wasn't quite as "Rin" as the version depicted in KS. I don't have trouble imagining this sort of conversation taking place between a person like Hisao and a person like Rin, but it doesn't feel to me like it fits very will with canon Hisao and Rin. To be more specific, I question whether or not Rin has enough social awareness to take part in this sort of persona-swapping roleplay. I also have trouble seeing Hisao getting so engaged in trying to paint with his feet. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that because I was able to identify with, understand, and enjoy the characters as portrayed in your short, I wonder if they aren't a little out-of-character from the canon depiction. I'm not convinced that this is the case; like I said, I feel unqualified to emphatically critique anything regarding Rin. Even if it is the case, I'm not sure that going a little OC in this area is a bad thing. In my case, it may have made your story more enjoyable.

I'd like to hear what you, and perhaps some more RIn-attuned readers, have to say on the issue. Did anyone else also feel a difference between these characters and the canon ones? Do you think Rin could have this sort of a conversation with this level of involvement? I'm not really sure about the answers to these questions myself, but you asked for my thoughts; here they are. I guess it's fitting that my thoughts on Rin be poorly collected, rather abstract, and a bit rambling.

It was a fun read. Thanks for writing it!

[forgetmenot]

So, any other thoughts on the story rather than the punctuation in it?

Hmm, hmm, what to say that hasn't already been said.

I feel like pieces like this are easy to think up, and difficult to execute. This being the quintessential example of when this process works correctly. The premise isn't much; it's just a simple "try and stand in the other's shoes" story. But it draws from the source material in an authentic-feeling way, as well as gives some insight into Hisao and Rin's current (at the time of the story) relationship. I feel like the most important part of any story like this is subtext, because there's no way in hell that it would stand on its own without it (or without the source material, but seeing as how this is fanfiction that's a moot point anyhow). Suffice to say, this story stands up well against those few tests.

It's a nice feel-good piece, but it also does something for character development as well, which is rare indeed. Kudos, Oddball.

I suppose I could counter this praise with some criticism, but it'd devolve into nitpickiness relatively quickly.

[Oddball]

I explain my distaste of Rin because I once again found myself confused after reading your story. This time, though, it was because I very much liked Rin! I really enjoyed the interplay between Rin and Hisao, and although I definitely got the impression that Rin was still an abnormal and abstract person, I felt much more capable of identifying and engaging with her. This kind of role-playing banter is something I could see myself doing with a person like Rin, and so I also felt more attuned to your take on Hisao's behavior towards Rin. All in all, I really enjoyed the story and it made me smile more times in 15 minutes than I had in the several hours I spent slogging through Rin's original route.

Honestly, I think most of Rin's route doesn't pain a very good picture of her. Considering that she's actively trying to change, is tired, and under a lot of stress, that's understandable though.

Now if you look at Rin in Act1 or in Emi's route, she seems ... well, not more well adjusted, but more functional. She may be a bit odd, but she's fully capable of interacting and understating others, even if she doesn't quite get their meaning sometimes.

[Maristo]

Now if you look at Rin in Act1 or in Emi's route, she seems ... well, not more well adjusted, but more functional. She may be a bit odd, but she's fully capable of interacting and understating others, even if she doesn't quite get their meaning sometimes.

Yeah, I definitely agree. It felt to me like that Rin was the one who showed up in your story. I think perhaps if an epilogue much in the manner of your short were included at the end of Rin's good route, it would tie things up much better for people like me.

[Mysterious Fox]

Now if you look at Rin in Act1 or in Emi's route, she seems ... well, not more well adjusted, but more functional. She may be a bit odd, but she's fully capable of interacting and understating others, even if she doesn't quite get their meaning sometimes.

That's an interesting point. It might explain a bit of why I *really* liked your dialogue for Rin.

The way you wrote her comes off as if the Rin we saw in Act One kept that persona through the rest of the game. We could understand what she was saying, basically, just from a functional stand point, while still coming off somewhat manic.

That brings up a question: What makes good dialogue for Rin? She is incredibly easy to push over the edge into her being an unbelievable self-parody, but in order for her to sound authentic, I feel you need to ride that edge. This story did well. Why? What are some things we can take away and try to use ourselves?

[brythain]

That brings up a question: What makes good dialogue for Rin? She is incredibly easy to push over the edge into her being an unbelievable self-parody, but in order for her to sound authentic, I feel you need to ride that edge. This story did well. Why? What are some things we can take away and try to use ourselves?

My instinct tells me that it's about a) coherence—Rin's behaviour is plausibly interconnected, it looks as if the same individual can actually say and do all those things; b) correspondence—Rin's behaviour as we've seen it KS matches the behaviour presented in the fanfic. It's probably somewhat easier for short pieces and likely harder to achieve over longer pieces.

[Helbereth]

There are some basic rules to Rin dialogue, I think.

First, she has a tendency to take everything literally, so her responses are usually exceedingly logical, factual, and sensible on some level; when she starts going off on tangents about seemingly random things, they aren't really that random - they just might not have anything to do with the current conversation is all. That said, her attention span is somewhat fleeting, so sometimes she just jumps the topic completely and goes into a non sequitur about the nearest blade of grass.

Second, her spatial sense is the dominant way in which she communicates, so everything is always about the shape, size, color and arrangement of things, rather than their objective place in the world, or her emotional attachment to them. This leads to her speaking in strange metaphors at times, or making comments at a grave-site about how "That's not Hisao."

Third, and perhaps most important, despite being perceptibly oblivious, she's fully aware of how her responses sound. This is made blatantly obvious in her introductory scene where she flummoxes Hisao by asking about his condition, then shifts his awkwardness into overdrive by making a completely unrealistic assumption about his junk; she doesn't fail to see social cues, she simply chooses to ignore them.

As for the story itself, I have to admit I've never managed to finish this particular one from Oddball's library. It didn't really turn me away so much as felt predictable. Most of Rin's route felt predictable to me, so I guess it's kind of an underhanded compliment because I thoroughly enjoyed her route, but I've been Rin before - years ago, back in high school - so I almost see things happening before my eyes read the words where she's concerned.

It's not a time in my life that I'd care to relive.

[Oddball]

Those are good notes to writing Rin. Honestly, this is the sort of thing that really deserves it's own topic, I think.

[Comrade]

Comradely announement time!
Unfortunately our ilustrious Kagan is currently unavailable, so i will announce the next fic on our readlist.
Sadly it is an abandoned one, but i remember enjoying it quite a bit when it was still updated.
It is currently not mentioned in the library but it will be added with the next library update.
Our topic will be KS:Bloodline
I will give it a readibg period of 5 days, so the next meeting will start at 00:00 GMT+3 of the 19th. Until then general discussion is restored, so feel free to unleash your Fan fiction feels.
Hope i did this right sea
Have fun

[Sea]

Hope i did this right sea

Ya did fine, Im just posting to verify you haven't shanked me in my sleep and assumed direct control.

[Comrade]

Hope i did this right sea

Ya did fine, Im just posting to verify you haven't shanked me in my sleep and assumed direct control.

And no one heard from him again

[Craftyatom]

Sadly it is an abandoned one, but i remember enjoying it quite a bit when it was still updated.

I thought I wasn't going to have a problem with having an unfinished story.
... I did ;_;
Can't wait for the meeting!

[Helbereth]

I'm gonna go based on my memory of reading it... a year ago? Honestly, it had a lot of issues with consistently - which the author admitted readily - and I don't feel like getting a stress headache from rereading them.