Shizune Arc

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ProfAllister
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Shizune Arc

Post by ProfAllister »

Jovereign wrote:Cons:
- Hardly any choices at all in this arc.
Some of the best stores are choice-free. Yeah, it might be a bit off-putting if you're expecting choices, but the lack of choices don't make something bad any more than the presence makes them good. They're a narrative device. One that the author decided wasn't all that necessary or desirable in the end.
- The "Comfort or not to comfort Misha choice". I can not tell you how much this pissed me off. Since when did comforting a person mean HAVING SEX WITH THEM!? What in the actual hell!? I thought comforting meant maybe hugging her a bit, or just talking and staying with her...being their for her. But no, instead, Hisao starts to take his shirt and pants off and in my head I'm going "HISAO! PUT YOUR DAMN CLOTHES BACK ON! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING!? STOP IT! YOUR HURTING HER! FIRST HANAKO, NOW MISHA!? STOP DAMN IT! And the worst part is, "comforting" Misha " (as I use that term very loosely) results in a bad ending for Shizune where apparently you having sex with Misha means Shizune has screwed up with something.
a: Give the girl some credit. she was very clear about her intentions. If you were paying attention, you'd notice that, in rejecting Misha, Hisao has to physically push her away while she's trying to pin him to the bed. And when Hisao does give in, he is actually more reluctant than she is, to the point where she's telling him to keep going when he's having second thoughts.

b: Read what Hisao is thinking/saying - (After being kissed and asking Misha what she's doing) "Although it's just a formality. I'd be stupid to not know what she is getting at, it's just that it seems so unlikely that I'm hoping there will be some way I won't have to deal with it."; "She looks at me, as if expecting me to take the lead, and closes her eyes nervously the second I return her gaze. I guess I have no choice..."; "I'm supposed to be comforting her, but it's entirely physical, and if Misha is being reassured in any way by this, she isn't showing it. That makes me question whether my decision was the right one. I'm really starting to doubt it."

c: Misha said "comfort" because "Please fuck my brains out, Hicchan. Just for today." lacks the elegance required in seducing your best friend's boyfriend.

d: The lack of direct correlation between the action and the result is related to the meta-narrative involved in the choice made. Namely, the Hisao that would cheat on Shizune , due to his dispositions and choices, will react to the follow-on situation differently. Whether or not Shizune finds out about their indiscretion, and whether or not she cares is all beside the point. So cheating Hisao betrays Shizune's trust, she's torn up about it, and she blames herself. That's how things work sometimes. Life (and narrative structure) doesn't have to follow Newtonian physics in quite the way you seem to imply.
-A HUGE missed opportunity for Shizune's family issues. The writer could have done much more with what he had on the table with this. Hisao NEVER has a big confrontation with Jigoro about his ignorance of Shizune's deafness and just overall as a person. The issue with Jigoro and Shizune is hardly ever brought up even though it is kind of a big freaking deal. Honestly, my memory is a little vague for this one because I haven't done Shizune's route in a while, so i might have to revisit it. But I remember how much was this part was ignored and it was just such a missed opportunity.
Dial back a second here. Jigoro may be a bit of an ass, and he may not bother putting the proper nuance on everything he says, but the (distressingly common) assumption that he has no idea (or understanding) that his daughter is deaf is a bridge too far. At worst, he's a die-hard subscriber to the Edison school of thought on deafness (look it up). There is a confrontation between Hisao and Jigoro (just after the H scene, if memory serves). Hisao tries calling Jigoro out, and Jigoro responds with a solid and uncompromising smackdown. Hisao is totally and completely shut down, because Jigoro has a point.

People alight on one key prhase in assuming that he doesn't understand her deafness: "For twelve years, Shizune did not even talk to me, even though I hired multiple tutors and interpreters of all sorts for her to try and get her to become normal." Go back and read that again. I'll wait. "[T]utors and interpreters of all sorts" He has no problem accepting that she's deaf. He takes issue with the fact that she works on her terms or not at all. Even with Misha and Hisao working as (not really) interpreters, Shizune makes a point of not actually speaking to her dad. That gives a little more significance to Jigoro's question of "Which one of you is talking?"
- Once again, ANOTHER missed opportunity. Only this time, with Misha and Hisao. Hisao finds out later that Misha is a lesbian and really loves Shizune. Hisao is pretty much on the same boat with Shizune. So you expect a big conflict of interest right?...nothing. It was just basically Misha confessing about it and Hisao just ponders on how to go about it, than Shizune arrives, and than...it's ignored for the rest of the story. Eventually, Misha comes back to her old self again, like that little detail about her mentioning she was in love with Shizune was no big deal...ugh.
Simple. She was very clearly putting it in the context of "this is my problem, not yours." Also, she says that it's been something she's been dealing with for over a year. What you're seeing is the final stages of her letting go and accepting it will never happen. She's upset because she sees her love is happy with someone else, but she also recognizes that it's just reinforcing what she knew all along. That doesn't mean it hurts any less.
- Shizune in my most honest opinion, is the most boring main character compared to the rest of the girls (Lilly, Hanako, Rin, Emi and Misha). Seriously, what other characteristic does she have going for her besides the fact that she is...competitive? And my god does that word always get shouted at me. "Shizune has a huge competitive fire in her", "oh man, Shizune sure is competitive about everything", "wow, Shizune is competitive with the way she treats everything as a competition". OK GREAT WE GET IT! She's competitive, any other interesting things about her besides the fact she wants to kick my ass in everything? With that said, she has some redeeming qualities like...being very kinky XD. But otherwise...ugh. I just found her very boring. Less Shizune, more Misha please.
"Hanako is a moeblob!" "Lilly is too perfect!" "Rin is autistic!" "Emi's a slut!"

Congratulations. You just discovered one of the five shallow stereotypes of the love interests. Try to collect them all!
Current Project: Misha Pseudo-Route

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Xanatos
Posts: 5364
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Shizune Arc

Post by Xanatos »

ProfAllister wrote:the Edison school of thought on deafness (look it up).

He takes issue with the fact that she works on her terms or not at all.
"A railroad worker grabbed him by the ears and hauled him up. Edison felt something snap inside his head, which started his deafness..." OWOWOWOW! :cry:

And she probably got some degree of that from him, to be fair. :lol:
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."
Jovereign
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:48 am

Re: Shizune Arc

Post by Jovereign »

ProfAllister wrote:
Jovereign wrote:snip
Obviously you saw something in the story that I didn't. So as I have said before a few times already, I just posted my own subjective thoughts and opinions on the whole route. I don't expect to change any minds in a thread where obviously people posting here love and adore Shizune. My thoughts are she's just an ok character with the whole route filled with some plot holes and missed potential as I have already stated. Most of the people that have quoted me like you have apparently saw something that I did not. Honestly, I think it's just people defending the writing for what it really is because of the bias towards Shizune here, so I'll just leave it at that.

Besides, I didn't think she was all bad, for example she had really humorous lines like this. :D

Image

But than...this...



From the words of the top comment on that video: ">I really should comfort her so we can get past this issue and have a better ending
Hisao: I'LL COMFORT HER... WITH MY DICK"

Yeah that's pretty much my thoughts on that choice XD.
Xanatos
Posts: 5364
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Shizune Arc

Post by Xanatos »

Jovereign wrote:the bias towards Shizune here
What bias? People defending the route against your rather flawed critique isn't exactly a bias. It's a natural reaction to a flawed critique. :lol:
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
<KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."
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