There are no "good" endings

[yippeekiyay]

At least not for me. This is my first post and I have only played through Emi and Rins stories, and I got the “good” endings both times. Playing through their stories I felt great and was really happy for both of them by the end, but soon after the credits rolled my smile disappeared. I guess that even though I was happy that Emi and Rin were happy, an egotistical side of me wanted me to be happy as well. Unfortunately that is not possible because I can never be with Rin, and that hurts me more than I thought possible. I keep telling myself that I’m not actually in love with her, and I know it’s rather silly to have these feelings for a fictional character, but I just can’t stop thinking about her. Maybe I just need to give it time.

[Xanatos]

There are actually many good endings. Emi has one, Rin has one, Shizune and Misha get one, Hanako gets one, Lilly...And every one is a good ending for Hisao. Not to mention the good endings for 4LS and the fans for the effects KS has had on them.

The point I'm trying to make is don't view things so damn selfishly. Good endings don't have to be about you. You want a good ending? Go get it like they all did. And anyway, how can you say there's no good ending? Your ending won't come for decades, given the average life expectancy these days.

[Xybaro]

Yes, give it time.

You just seem to be experiencing "feels"

[Enemy |]

Don't panic, it's just a game

[Dr. Robotnik]

Misha get one

Must've missed that one.

Anyway, the way I look at it, there are no good endings; just slightly better endings. For every path you choose, that's, on average, one person out of five that you save from a shit life. Lilly's is the best in this regard with two and Shizune's is the worst with zero. Think about it; in any route that isn't her own, Lilly goes to Scotland to live a shell of a life away from those who actually care for her for the sake of a family that doesn't really care about her, Rin goes to be miserable as Nomiya's bitch, and Emi never grows close to anyone. In anything but Lilly's or Hanako's, Hanako stays...well, Hanako. And Misha doesn't get a happy ending, not even in Shizune's route (in which it's revealed that she's suicidal depressive). All of this could be solved if Hisao actually stayed close to the other girls who are still his friends, but nope, shit lives for everyone his dick isn't in.

[Xanatos]

For every path you choose, that's, on average, one person out of five that you save from a shit life.

That one person has a good ending which means there are good endings.

And Misha's is hard to miss. It's in the end of Shizune's route.

Why must they all just end up miserable without Hisao? They all have many years left to live and Hisao isn't the only capable person they're likely to meet.

[Dr. Robotnik]

That one person has a good ending which, big shock, means there are good endings.

You're arguing semantics. Our definitions of good are clearly different, you telling me mine is wrong is just your opinion.

And Misha's is hard to miss. It's in the end of Shizune's route.

Nothing about that was good, they just got her to go back into her facade of happiness through a guilt trip. There was no improvement in her situation at all.

Why must they all just end up miserable without Hisao? They all have many years left to live and Hisao isn't the only capable person they're likely to meet.

True, however this isn't necessarily the case either, and Lilly and Rin neutral end would've definitely have happened without Hisao.

[Xanatos]

You're arguing semantics. Our definitions of good are clearly different, you telling me mine is wrong isn't doing anything but trying to start shit.

Nothing about that was good, they just got her to go back into her facade of happiness through a guilt trip. There was no improvement in her situation at all.

"Good" has a certain meaning and if someone's life is improved then that qualifies, by the common definition, good. By your definition, unless everyone (relevant or not to the particular story being told) benefits, any good is negated. And, in my opinion, that's fucking stupid.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe she was capable of moving on and it's not just a facade? It's never hinted at being a facade at that point. Don't read into what isn't there.

[Dr. Robotnik]

"Good" has a certain meaning and if someone's life is improved then that qualifies, by the common definition, good. By your definition, unless everyone (relevant or not to the particular story being told) benefits, any good is negated. And that's fucking stupid.

First off, whether or not something is "good" is an opinion, meaning it's completely subjective (a concept which you can't seem to grasp). Second, it's not that they don't benefit, it's that you can see their various problems that are only going to get worse unless someone intervenes (and, in some cases, life-shattering events that are definitely 100% going to happen without you), yet you can only stop one. With that knowledge, I can't look at any of the endings and call them universally "good". However, this didn't need to happen, as Hisao could've still been close to the other girls even if he wasn't in love with them.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe she was capable of moving on and it's not just a facade? It's never hinted at being a facade at that point. Don't read into what isn't there.

So she instantly just got better? That's not how depression works. At all. Nothing about anything that happened realistically would've helped her in any way. She stopped pretending to not be depressed for a couple scenes and then, after Hisao making her feel bad about making them worried about her, she immediately starts acting like she used to. I cannot reach any other conclusion except that she's just pretending again.

I'm not reading into what isn't there, you're just making everything as simple as possible.

[SemisoftCheese]

With that knowledge, I can't look at any of the endings and call them universally "good". However, this didn't need to happen, as Hisao could've still been close to the other girls even if he wasn't in love with them.
. I cannot reach any other conclusion except that she's just pretending again.

I'm not reading into what isn't there, you're just making everything as simple as possible.

Well, unless Hisao can time travel and is into polygamy, I doubt he can romance or even relate to and thus save all five girls.I think the latent problem here is the underlying narcissism in your comment. They don't need you to get better. As as I've mentioned before on other posts, people aren't broken toys for you to fix. You're not super-Hisao, swooping in and saving the day. You're just a dude with a sweatervest who wants to help out someone he loves.

When you give money to charity, are you upset because you gave it to stop hunger instead of saving the rainforest? No. You're trying to solve one cause at a time, because you've got limited money and limited time. Likewise, if you end up helping one person, I think that's good enough to call it a day.

Furthermore, Hanako's route is "good" (using any definition you want) because she finds another person who loves her. It's not an instant cure, but you can see her getting along in various ways--playing chess with Shizune, going out to the Shanghai, etc.--she's on the road to recovery with Hisao by her side.

If that's not good, I don't really know what is.

[Dr. Robotnik]

Well, unless Hisao can time travel and is into polygamy, I doubt he can romance or even relate to and thus save all five girls.I think the latent problem here is the underlying narcissism in your comment. They don't need you to get better. As as I've mentioned before on other posts, people aren't broken toys for you to fix. You're not super-Hisao, swooping in and saving the day. You're just a dude with a sweatervest who wants to help out someone he loves.

I already said that he doesn't have to be fucking them to be close. You don't have to be a super hero to be involved in your friends' lives.

When you give money to charity, are you upset because you gave it to stop hunger instead of saving the rainforest? No. You're trying to solve one cause at a time, because you've got limited money and limited time. Likewise, if you end up helping one person, I think that's good enough to call it a day.

This is not the same situation at all. All of these problems could be solved by just being there for your friends, which Hisao doesn't do.

Furthermore, Hanako's route is "good" (using any definition you want) because she finds another person who loves her. It's not an instant cure, but you can see her getting along in various ways--playing chess with Shizune, going out to the Shanghai, etc.--she's on the road to recovery with Hisao by her side.

If that's not good, I don't really know what is.

It's good for her, not necessarily for his other friends. I'm sure he'd be a lot happier if his reunion didn't consist of a soulless Japanese teacher filled with regret, a lonely athlete who's alienated everyone in her life, Shizune, and Rin and Misha who aren't there because they killed themselves.

More importantly, why are you two getting so upset over my opinion? Like, I say something, you don't agree, and then decide to go into full on "I don't care how derailed this gets my opinion has to be superior" arguer mode instead of trying to have a civil discussion about it. I'm just trying to get through to you guys because you clearly don't understand what I'm saying, but for some reason you guys seem to just want to argue about who's right.Was it always like this here (this is my first time here in six months)?

[yippeekiyay]

Misha get one

Must've missed that one.

Anyway, the way I look at it, there are no good endings; just slightly better endings. For every path you choose, that's, on average, one person out of five that you save from a shit life...

I see what you are saying, though I think that's quite a depressing way of looking at it. Like some of the others are saying, we can't really say for sure what will happen to the others girls once you go down one path, their lives might change despite of not being in a relationship with Hisao.

My point was not about the other girls, but the fact that while girl X and Hisao end up being happy together and their relationship is just beginning, for the player/reader it is the end. You meet this amazing person and just as everything is solved, and you and her are happy, the story ends and she is taken away from you, and you feel worse than ever. And I know thats a selfish thought but the game made me feel quite terrible even though I loved it.

[Xanatos]

it's that you can see their various problems that are only going to get worse unless someone intervenes (and, in some cases, life-shattering events that are definitely 100% going to happen without you)

So she instantly just got better? That's not how depression works. At all. Nothing about anything that happened realistically would've helped her in any way. She stopped pretending to not be depressed for a couple scenes and then, after Hisao making her feel bad about making them worried about her, she immediately starts acting like she used to. I cannot reach any other conclusion except that she's just pretending again.

I'm not reading into what isn't there, you're just making everything as simple as possible.

1) And who's to say someone doesn't intervene? Hisao isn't the only person around. Assuming their lives don't continue beyond the route ends, Hisao is legitimately their only hope (assuming no one else intervenes while you're off with your girl) but it doesn't matter because their lives and problems would not progress anyway but merely freeze abruptly in time. In that case, they don't even get an ending, good or bad. And there are no events destined to happen without Hisao because destiny is a bullshit concept and nothing in the future is 100% guaranteed. Assuming their lives do continue beyond the route ends, there is AMPLE opportunity for their problems to be fixed and it doesn't have to be Hisao that does it. So whether or not there are good endings for them is largely a matter of one's perception of how their futures will play out. Yours is evidently pessimistic.

2) First of all, depression can and often does work like that. You can be depressed one moment then fine the next. It happens. Second of all, you're free to reach any conclusion you like but in reality, there's nothing to support your conclusion aside from "I don't believe that can happen so it didn't happen!". Meanwhile, what's actually shown is that she does get better. When she doesn't get better, you get the bad end as all three suffer for it. In the good end, there is improvement and there is legitimate happiness. That's what's there. That's why it's the good end. By drawing a different conclusion than what's shown in the end, you are reading into what isn't there.

[Dr. Robotnik]

Still in full on "I don't care how derailed this gets my opinion has to be superior" arguer mode, I see.

1) And who's to say someone doesn't intervene?

There is nothing to say anyone ever will, so I don't think it's that extreme to assume so. I think it's quite hypocritical of you to call me out on not assuming enough about this right after doing exactly the opposite about the Misha thing. Once again, probably you just trying to sound right because you'd rather argue than discuss.

2) First of all, depression can and often does work like that. You can be depressed one moment then fine the next. It happens.

And then she's never depressed again? Her depression just completely goes away forever in one moment? You have no idea what you're talking about, don't even open your mouth about shit like this if you're going to keep perpetuating that "tough it up get over it" bullshit.

Second of all, you're free to reach any conclusion you like but in reality, there's nothing to support your conclusion aside from "I don't believe that can happen so it didn't happen!". Meanwhile, what's actually shown is that she does get better. There is improvement and there is legitimate happiness. That's what's there. By drawing a different conclusion than what's shown in the end, you are reading into what isn't there.

That is not what is shown. They never said that she got better, that's just an assumption made by you. What is shown is Misha just feeling bad about being depressed and then immediately acting like she did when she was pretending to not be depressed. Exactly the same. Immediately after she's made to feel guilty about it. This is not a hard connection to make. Also, this is the opposite of what you're saying about the other thing. You're telling me "stop taking it at face value" and then "stop not taking it at face value" in the same post. Maybe if you stopped trying to be right and started to actually tried to understand what I'm saying, you wouldn't sound like such a hypocrite.

If you're going to stay in arguer mode, don't even respond, as right now all you're trying to do is sound right at the cost of pretty much anything that could be gained from this discussion.

[SemisoftCheese]

More importantly, why are you two getting so upset over my opinion?

It's good for her, not necessarily for his other friends. I'm sure he'd be a lot happier if his reunion didn't consist of a soulless Japanese teacher filled with regret, a lonely athlete who's alienated everyone in her life, Shizune, and Rin and Misha who aren't there because they killed themselves.

I'm sincerely sorry to have really struck a nerve with you; I didn't mean for my opinion to be taken in such a hostile way. I think the best part of forums is that everyone gets to post, no matter where you come from, and that you can share your opinion or interpretation however you like. I was in a bit of a bad mood when I wrote that post, and I regret doing so.

I personally treat my friends (yes, I do have them, and I'm pretty sure they don't hate me behind my back), as individual, self-acting beings. If they have problems, I'm always there with my stash of candy, sarcasm, and an open ear. If you have a problem, I'll drive miles and hours to fix it.

But in my opinion, I respect my friends by leaving them alone sometimes. I'm not their mother, and I shouldn't be solving all their problems, because they're a human being and they might want to fix it themself. If they want to talk to me about it, I'm there, always. But most of the time, they solve their problems on their own. It's better for all of us that way. I think there's a point to be made that it's quite possible that the other characters will eventually resolve their problems on their own; and find happiness in their own way.

Admittedly, none of my friends have problems as serious as Hanako's, Rin's, etc. They tend to revolve around Winter Formal dates or whatever. And if I met 5 lovely girls who desperately needed help, I'd probably try and do my best to help them all. But if I fell in love with one of them, and started seeing less of the others as I tried to fix the one I love, would I be a bad person? Furthermore, if I didn't know of their disabilities (presuming by playing one route, you don't uncover the problems uncovered in the others), would I be a bad person? And even if I did know, and chased after one because I loved her instead of fixing all five, would I be a terrible person?

Maybe. But having fallen in love myself, I can say you're not exactly rational or reasonable. I think that the happiness of two people is enough. Would fixing five be better? Maybe. Would we love a Misha route? Of course. Is KS still a great game? yes.

What I'm saying is, it doesn't need to be perfect to be good. And once again, sorry for being so hostile in the beginning.