Typology and the Characters

[Umbra]

So yesterday I read quite a lot about typology and started wondering what would be the personality types of the girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Brig ... _Indicator)

So far I have some ideas:

Misha: ESFp
Rin: INFp
Shizune: ENTj
Hanako: ISFp (?)

So guys and girls, what are your thoughts?

[ProfAllister]

Well, let's start with a pretty important caveat:

MBTI doesn't indicate actions, it indicates inclinations. The best description I've heard is that the various qualities are "how one recovers their energy." Similarly, depending on the intensity of the inclinations, it affects how draining acting against type would be. Therefore, there's nothing to keep you from working against your type, but it is mentally, emotionally, and sometimes physically taxing to do so.

Case in point: my father is cheerful, gregarious, and friendly. Some would call him a social butterfly. But he's an introvert. He needs his "me time." His outgoing personality is a learned skill, one very important for his line of work.

Also, I'm not qualified in any sort of medical or psychological evaluations.

That being said, let's go down the line:

(SPOILERS, of course)

Misha: No question, I'd consider her an introvert, not an extrovert. She knows a lot of people, but that's more due to her "responsibilities" as Shizune's "translator." But she only has one friend. It takes months for her to open up to Hisao, and she does so mostly because of her disconnect with Shizune. She confesses that she doesn't really have anyone she misses from her previous school, comments that she's okay with being ignored (as an alternative to being hated, admitted). Similarly, I'd place her as intuitive, not sensing.

Sensing vs Intuitive - Sensing is detail-oriented, intuitive is more focused on the general contours. One example provided was how they would give directions. The sensing individual will tell you to "go .5 miles down Main street, then take a 45 degree turn onto diagonal street, and continue down diagonal for 3 miles, and your destination will be on the left. The house number will be 8675309." The intuitive individual will say "Okay, you're going to go down main street for a little bit, then you want to turn left at the McDonald's. It's the street that comes at a weird angle. You want to go down that for a while, until you see the purple house with green shutters. There should be a pink bug in the driveway. If you start seeing signs for the largest ball of twine, you went too far."

Feeling seems more or less spot-on, and her time management issues and such make a decent argument for perceiving. That means I'd consider Misha an INFP.

Rin: While INFP seems reasonable at first glance, I think an argument could be made for S, T, and/or J. She's spacey, yes, but the way she speaks, the demand for precision, all point more to an S. She doesn't want a word that "kind of describes the sense;" she wants a word that "means" what she wants to say. So I'd say S, not N. Similarly, she seems to care about the facts of the matter more than the people and emotions behind it. She sees interpersonal relationships as hierarchically structured, with clear delineations, and actions are actions - she sees emotions as more of a distraction, something to be fought.

Thinking vs. Feeling - Thinking focuses on the facts as they are, while feeling is more concerned with the people. The thinking person appeals to the brain, while the feeling person appeals to the heart. For the thinking person, you can break down any problem into a mathematical statement, with knowable values and a clear answer. For the feeling person, there are all sorts of variables and intangibles, with no clear "right" answer, just a "using your best judgment" answer. (I'll admit, I struggle with defining this one, probably because I want to give thinking the credit it deserves, but feel strong personal inclinations toward feeling.)

P and J are difficult to judge with her, because she doesn't really DO much. However, she seems to get irritated when her routine is interrupted or unexpected things come up. She seems quite laid back, but Hisao never really shakes up her plans until the latter part of her route, and then things get bad. So Rin, interestingly enough, would probably be an ISTJ.

Shizune: Extroverted vs. introverted is a tough call for Shizune. On one hand, she's constantly trying to get people involved in her schemes, pulling more people around her, etc. On the other hand, she only really has Misha as a friend, and seems to have opted out of the deaf community. On balance, however, I'd say most of her social deficiencies are personal hang-ups, and she truly likes being among people, interacting with them. So E it is. I'd say she's sensing, not intuitive. She's all about precision, making sure everything's perfect, with all the "I"s dotted and all the "T"s crossed, whether they like it or not. Agree on her being a solid T. She measures everything, weighs and judges it, and makes a decision, and her decisions are non-negotiable. But then we get to perceiving against judging. Shizune is a hardcore P. She lives on unpredictability, taking life as it comes, and living just a little bit dangerously. Unexpected interruptions aren't a problem or an annoyance, they are the greatest thing ever - challenges. This makes Shizune ESTP.

Hanako: Safe to say Hanako's introverted, but less sure about sensing vs. intuitive. I want to say she's more intuitive, but we don't have much to go on, other than her approach to cooking. I'd say she's a T rather than an F, though. Mostly based on her understanding of relationships in a transactional sense of quid pro quo. Finally, pure and unequivocal judging. When things don't go as planned, when the unexpected appears, she freaks out. That makes Hanako INTJ

Lilly: Lilly's reasonably popular, but doesn't have many close friends, and she even keeps quite a bit from them. Textbook extroverted. Difficult to judge sensing vs. intuitive for her, because her blindness leads to a natural need for sensing-like activity. That being said, a life of taking activities by necessity means she'd probably lean more toward her necessities rather than preferences when answering questions, so she'd test as an S. Definitely an F. And I'd be inclined to say she's a J. She generally takes control, and makes plans, and otherwise tries to place everything neatly in its proper cubbyhole. In addition, of course, tot he order and neatness that's more or less required to handle life while blind. So I'd place Lilly as ESFJ.

Emi: Another popular, lots of friends, few (or no) close friends, so easy E. Details are more of a distraction to her, only getting in the way. Close enough is good enough, making her an N. She judges the actions of others more on (her perceived) motivations rather than the nature of the actions themselves, making her a likely candidate for F over T. And, again, she's a planner. Things happen because she decides they're going to happen that way, and she rarely lets anything get in the way of her decisions. Therefore, Emi's an ENFJ.

Hisao: It's probably safe to say that Hisao's an introvert. The narrative format seems to incline more toward sensing, but it's a tough call. He's all about feelings and motivations rather than the actions themselves, so definitely an F. Finally, he tends to just go with the flow, letting life happen, and taking it as it comes. He doesn't plan, though he does have to occasional multi-step impulse. Hisao's probably ISFP.

[Loonie]

Honestly, it's an interesting thought to place them in these categories, but I kinda don't feel like going into an explanation behind my picks. Partly because these personality types are not set in stone (sometimes changing during an individual's life) and are also based on percentages. It is perfectly possible for someone to be, for example, an ENTJ, but with their test result being only 3% away from being an ENFJ. So it's hardly a set thing, even if it has proven to be a useful guide for many.

The other part of the reason, however, is that I've seen so many damn interpretations as to the specifics of what each type means that I'd really prefer to let other people form their own opinions on why I picked what I did. They can look up the general vibe that each type gives off anywhere on the web really, but the specifics are moreso up to them to figure out when it comes to the KS girls and my opinion of them. So I'll just name them one by one and let people think what they will:


Misha: ENFP
Shizune: ESTJ
Lilly: ESFJ
Hanako: INFP
Emi: ENFJ
Rin: INTJ
Hisao: Varies greatly between the girls' arcs and constantly shifts even during Act 1. For example, in Lilly's and Hanako's routes he is very much of an F acting upon his feelings, whereas in Emi's and Rin's routes he tends to be moreso of a T trying to figure them both out.

Though I will also say that Rin's good ending implies her becoming moreso of an INFJ, once her mental block was broken through by Hisao and she finally allowed herself to consider her emotions as being both real and valid.

[ravenlord]

I miss the old days of using D&D grids to mark people's personalities/alignments.

Shizune - Lawful Evil
Misha - Chaotic Evil
Rin - Chaotic Neutral
Emi - True Neutral
Lilly - Lawful Good
Hanako - Neutral Good
Hisao - metamorph (takes on his lover's alignment)

[Loonie]

I miss the old days of using D&D grids to mark people's personalities/alignments.

Shizune - Lawful Evil
Misha - Chaotic Evil
Rin - Chaotic Neutral
Emi - True Neutral
Lilly - Lawful Good
Hanako - Neutral Good
Hisao - metamorph (takes on his lover's alignment)

Misha chaotic evil?! Nah, she's moreso like chaotic good, just too infatuated with her lawful evil mistress.

[Umbra]

snippity snip

Guess you're an ST, right?
(I'm a NF btw. just compare my absent analysing with your thorough study)

[Xanatos]

I miss the old days of using D&D grids to mark people's personalities/alignments.

Shizune - Lawful Evil
Misha - Chaotic Evil
Rin - Chaotic Neutral
Emi - True Neutral
Lilly - Lawful Good
Hanako - Neutral Good
Hisao - metamorph (takes on his lover's alignment)

Shizune - Lawful Neutral
Misha - Neutral Good
Rin - Chaotic Neutral
Emi - Neutral Good
Lilly - Lawful Good (with Chaotic tendencies)
Hanako - True Neutral
Hisao - Varies by arc
Kenji - Neutral Evil
Jigoro - Lawful Neutral
Hideaki - True Neutral
Mutou - Lawful Good
Nomiya - Neutral Evil
Othello - Chaotic Evil

[ProfAllister]

snippity snip

Guess you're an ST, right?
(I'm a NF btw. just compare my absent analysing with your thorough study)

Fun story there.

On basic-level tests, I turn up INFP. Several years ago, my whole family took a more in-depth test. INFP, but the word association noted disparities that implies subconscious inclinations toward S and T. Using the directions example, I feel most natural giving directions like an N. Can take any sort of directions, but need them written down. That's more a matter of me not trusting my memory, though. Also, I tend to think and argue like Spock, but Leonard "Bones" McCoy is my favorite character.

Kind of disappointed in Loonie's drive-by appellations. Those counterpoints are intriguing, but worthless without any context for why. Especially considering a few only differed by one trait (often the one I consider most defining).

And, as far as DnD alignments go:

Going to use Good vs. Evil more in the sense of selfish vs. altruistic. Evil doesn't mean maniacal laughter, black armor and spikes so much as it means "There are winners and losers in the world, and I'm going to be a winner. People get hurt. It happens. Life's a zero-sum game; if someone wins, someone else loses."

Shizune: Neutral Good - Shizune claims to be a stickler for the rules, but she has no problem with breaking them when she considers it justified. Her focus on the rules is more in service to her goodness. Her goodness is that of the "Hedonic Calculus" variety - the greatest good for the greatest number of people. She dislikes Lilly and most of the old Student Council because they didn't live up to this standard. They were either "selfish" and unwilling to give up enough of themselves for the sake of the greater good, or, like Lilly, too caught up in individuals, wasting effort on small returns, rather than the big picture.

Misha: Chaotic Good - Misha doesn't care about the rules. She doesn't go out of her way to break the rules, but, if the rules get in the way of having fun, her attitude is "screw the rules." Shizune needs a justification to break the rules; Misha doesn't. Misha wants to be a nice person, and tries to help others out, even at her own expense. In "Tongue-Tied" (i.e. Comfort Misha), she's psychologically strained and acts against her principles. If Hisao refuses, she thanks him, reigning back from the abyss. If Hisao complies, the guilt of this action tears her up even more, because she fully went through with it.

Rin: True Neutral - Rin generally does as she pleases, regardless of the rules. Unlike Shizune, she doesn't make a decision on the rules, she simply doesn't think of them at all. Rin doesn't want to hurt people, but she also doesn't really give of herself for the sake of others. She offers to give of herself for Hisao, but alignments reflect attitudes toward the individual without context. Any alignment can have someone they particularly love or particularly hate. The atelier ordeal isn't done for her audience (that way lies "Neutral End"), but for herself.

Emi: Chaotic Good - Unlike Rin, Emi is well aware of the rules. Shizune makes sure of that. But she still doesn't care. The rules are there, Emi doesn't want to follow them, ergo the rules are broken. As Hisao's "determination" speech illustrates, Emi is more than willing to go out of her way in a rather extreme manner for a relative stranger. She doesn't want to get hurt, but she can't let herself hurt Hisao to escape, so she tries to convince herself that it's justified - she doesn't want to hurt him; he doesn't care about her, he only pities her; there were clear rules in the relationship and he broke them; he doesn't understand the situation, and he's just hurting himself by trying.

Lilly: Neutral Good - You're making the alcoholic nymphomaniac lawful? Joking aside, Lilly is prim and proper, but considers the rules to have a very specific purpose - to keep people from getting hurt. By extension, if "it's not hurting anyone" it's okay. She always puts others before herself, going out of her way to put them at ease or otherwise makes things right. Shizune's biggest objection was that Lilly thinks too small, after all. Even the final conflict falls into this barrel - she's attempting to serve two masters, and doing good toward one is doing evil toward the other.

Hanako: Lawful Evil - That's going to bring some hate down... There are rules, and the rules need to be followed. She cuts class and otherwise acts out not because she has antipathy toward the rules, but because she's been given an exception. The faculty has made it clear to her that she doesn't have to stick around if she can't take it. But she still makes the attempt, trying to be strong so she won't need an exception. The evil comes in when we get to interpersonal relationships. she considers herself weak, because she can't assert herself as she wishes. But she won't be at anyone else's mercy. So it's a matter of exchange - you do good for me, I do good for you. I won't put myself in your debt. This continues until their first night together, when she tries to put Hisao in her debt. Evil doesn't understand good. If someone is good, the evil interprets them either as a fool, or conniving. When the good person is nothing but kind to the evil person, and there's no clear profit, the evil person often gets nervous. Even a moron would realize there's no profit by now. What's his angle? But, since she's weak, she can't call him out until it's too much, until it seems Hisao's going to cash in on the debt and leaver her behind, broken and spent.

Kenji - Neutral Evil
Jigoro - Lawful Neutral
Hideaki - True Neutral
Mutou - Lawful Good

Sure, why not? Jigoro could easily be Lawful Good in the classic self-righteous bastard sense. Would probably place Nomiya as Neutral Good, though. He thinks he's doing Rin a favor, and he explodes because she doesn't live up to his standards, as she turns selfishly in on herself, to say nothing of ingratitude.

[Loonie]

Kind of disappointed in Loonie's drive-by appellations. Those counterpoints are intriguing, but worthless without any context for why.

They are not worthless if you think for yourself as to why I chose them and place them in the context of your own perceptions. If anyone is genuinely interested in why I made my picks, they can consider them with their own thoughts. They don't need my thoughts to help theirs when it comes to something like this.

Normally I don't mind giving context as to why, but frankly providing personal context to a field that stretches outside of a forum's stated mission is not my cup of tea. I don't mind providing context for things like 'Why do I think Emi's Hisao is my favourite?' or 'Why I don't like Nomiya?' because in those cases I'm addressing something specific to these forums. They were created for providing context for these types of questions and I don't mind making my opinion known and I like reading those of others about it all too.

But the Briggs-Meyers test (that is mentioned here) is not specific just to this fanbase. It is used for both good and ill in our world and more often than not in the workplace rather than for our personal benefit. As such the opinions on 'Why someone is a certain character type' are so varied and loaded with real-world implications that I'd rather avoid the rush on this one. And most importantly of all - this typology is used to classify real living human beings as opposed to fictional characters in a VN.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying in any way that this test and this typology should *not* be used for the KS girls. I mean...why the heck not? It's pretty fun to see how people would classify them based on this too. It's just that I honestly don't think I need to read an opinion on why someone made a pick like this. Because, to quote Hisao in Rin's path, "I'm sure their reasons are as good as any." and hearing them would always lead towards a struggle to pigeonhole these characters into a specific personality type that (unless the creators specifically designed these characters with the Briggs-Meyers test in mind - highly unlikely) probably could not apply to these fictional characters. So...why validate your pick with an opinion? Just make it and if people are genuinely curious to know more...they'll ask.

But alright, considering you did post the segment I quoted from you, I guess you are curious. So I'll give in this once and give a description for why I picked each the way I did. Mind you, my answers might still be unsatisfactory and there's a reason for this - because I want people to not just take my own context for 'the truth' or even 'my truth' and fill out the blanks for themselves as to why I made my picks. And unlike Prof, I'll post my opinion of the whole sum total of each personality type as opposed to just the individual parts one by one. After all, it's always the interaction between the different parts that truly make a person as opposed to just the individual parts themselves:

Misha: ENFP - These people tend towards one thing in particular: spreading a message. Doesn't matter what the message is so much as that they get to be its bearer. It should come as no surprise, then, that Misha's aspiration had always been to serve as an energetic translator and having deeply personal reasons for doing it as opposed to genuinely idealistic ones. An issue that she either runs away from most likely within the bad ending or confronts by the time of the good ending.

Shizune: ESTJ - These people tend towards one thing in particular: overseeing and managment. Doesn't necessarily mean they're perfect at it, but with practice they do at least become efficient in it far quicker than any of their peers. Unsurprisingly Shizune fits this bill - rising above all of her classmates, having ambition that drives her onwards and completing the tasks she sets for herself. Of course even though she always completes each individual task well, she fails horribly at the long-term tasks that never end, such as fostering interpersonal relationships and gauging people's feelings without provoking them first. This either drives her to her despair in her bad ending or it leads her to actually, for once, decide not to provoke Misha anymore but to simply watch and learn from her first. And from that observation she is smart enough to apply the same lesson that Misha learned to herself.

Lilly: ESFJ - These people tend towards one thing in particular: supporting and caring for others. Doesn't mean it's always the best thing to do, since it is possible to support bad habits as well, but it does make them very empathetic and caring, if somewhat unimaginative. Lilly tending towards becoming a teacher certainly isn't that far of a stretch, with her choice of english teacher merely being a path of least resistance (something she's prone towards yet again) due to her upbringing. Problem is, of course, that her lack of imagination also makes her terrible at predicting the future, thinking that surely Hisao will eventually be okay with her leaving him forever or that maybe a long-distance relationship will work out. And in the end it's only due to Hisao that she either believes in these 'sweet nothings' (bad end) or that she constantly hears Hisao being honest throughout the course of the arc and thus cannot ignore what she's really doing by leaving him behind (good end).

Hanako: INFP - These people tend towards one thing in particular: escapism. Doesn't mean that they are always incredibly imaginative or inventive, but it does mean that they will do their earnest to avoid all conflict and stress through either private or solitary activities, such as certain types of games (chess) or most commonly reading. The reason for this is because of their incredible sensitivity, not in a physical manner but on a psychological one - which is precisely the primary issue with Hanako. She is sensitive even on the behalf of others, to the point that she goes catatonic upon inadvertently stumbling upon Hisao's and Lilly's birthday plans. This, unfortunately, is not entirely her own fault because people, such as Lilly and even the school staff, have been treating her as if this would inevitably happen, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy in her head.

Of course, this is the point where it does become mainly her own fault because she actually grew to like that sort of treatment from others. Why? Well, because it meant less stress for her and those around her of course. And yet the stress would not stop, because secretly she would always wish to become more than just that and it isn't until her good ending that she finally realizes how wrong she was in just letting others treat her as if she was a china doll. Of course the only reason why she let this happen was because if she wanted it to stop she would have to make a fuss about it and thus...get herself and others stressed. Of course Hisao can be the one to get her stressed too in her arc, either in a pushy way in the bad ending or in a good way in the good ending that finally breaks down her self-imposed wall and lets her see what she needs to do in order to finally grow up. Because stress is not necessarily a bad thing, especially not if it's brought about by love.

Emi: ENFJ - These people tend towards one thing in particular: inspiring and leading others through example. Doesn't mean, however, that they always succeed because their example is often so startingly honest and serious that most people simply can't afford to invest that much of themselves into following them. Hence why it's not too surprising that of all the people who actually stuck around Emi in the end as closer acquaintances, there were only three - her ex-boyfriend, Rin and Hisao. But the one major flaw of these people is that, due to how all of their four parts interact between themselves, they almost never consider rational or moreso detached explanations as valid. Coupled with their aversion to following, it makes them incredibly stubborn and deadset on their beliefs. And in Emi's case those beliefs are survival and the defiance of fate at any cost - even the cost of being close to anyone ever again. Fortunately, due to their NF visionary side that also allows for a hidden element of doubt, there is always a chance that if they meet someone who is just as stubborn as they are, and genuinely value that person, even they might be swayed - something that happens in one of Emi's good ends.

Rin: INTJ - These people tend towards one thing in particular: intellectual pursuits. Doesn't mean, however, that beneath that cold and genuinely impartial intellectuality there aren't emotions that are made only twice as powerful due to being repressed. And it is, in fact, this repression of her emotions that serves as the fire which makes Rin so good at painting. Still, it must be pointed out that she mentions, very astutely, in her neutral ending that she's not really an artist - she just likes to paint because it's the only thing that she feels could do justice to her feelings. Words never have and never will, because something is always lost in the translation of such a logics-driven language that is so dependant upon correct usage of grammar/syntax/punctuation by creatures as flawed as humans, who always make mistakes when choosing their words. But with art there are no such rules - only indescribable feeling and emotion. There may be things such as art theory to maximize the chances of getting one's meaning across...and yet that only applies in a general sense of popularity. Never in the actual quality of the art itself, which varies from individual to individual - something Rin is moreso interested in. So she uses art to communicate her feelings constantly in the hopes that others will understand and to remember them later on. Not because she's an artist, but because she thought it'd be the only way she could communicate her feelings.

Feelings...whose nature not even she knows of. Because an INTJ is usually so cerebral, so prone to overthinking things that they completely discard the only thing that could tell them the most about who they really are - their feelings. Rin speaks of this in the good ending, of how she once cried and yet thought that it didn't make any sense for her to do so because it did not express her feelings correctly enough. So she convinced herself that, perhaps, she didn't know how she felt about things at all. Something that leads her to her path to obsessively communicate with art (and finish whatever project she starts at great personal expense) and something that, hopefully, can be overcome with her good ending. Because for the first time ever Rin blushes of her own accord, showing that she finally considers her feelings as being valid. Because having your feelings understood is ultimately overrated and one shouldn't be afraid to express them, however imperfectly. And because there are healthier ways to express yourself than through words or art. Namely through honest actions or, in other words, seizing the moment by doing what you genuinely want to do, rather than just what others expect you to do, whenever you damn well can in your crazy life.

And now that I'm done with this, I've gotta stop typing and do something to seize the moment in my own corner of the world. There Prof. In the words of 'The Bunk' from 'The Wire': "Ya happy now, ya bitch?!"

[ravenlord]

I miss the old days of using D&D grids to mark people's personalities/alignments.

Shizune - Lawful Evil
Misha - Chaotic Evil
Rin - Chaotic Neutral
Emi - True Neutral
Lilly - Lawful Good
Hanako - Neutral Good
Hisao - metamorph (takes on his lover's alignment)

Misha chaotic evil?! Nah, she's moreso like chaotic good, just too infatuated with her lawful evil mistress.

Well, I see both Shizune and Misha as possessing each element of the Dark Triad (Machiavellianism, Narcissim, and Psychopathy). I don't make a value judgement as "good or bad", but by defination it points more towords "Evil" instead of "Good". Shizune is certainly the driving force of the pair, but Misha is a willing accomplace and follower due to pure lust and avarice. And she does plot and attempt the ultimate betrayal when she feels spruned beyond her breaking point. I see Shizune as "Lawful" due to her strong belief in the rules and being happy to use them as a weapon and tool (thought she does have her own set of rules for herslef), and Misha as "Chaotic" because the rules are simply incidental to her bigger goal (possessing Shizune), and she is fine with doing anything as long as it fits within that framework.

However, at at the end of the day, I think those two are a lot like Mae West who is infamously credited with "When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better”

Edit note:

I see Lilly as lawful because of her heavy sense of responsibility and loyalty. I see her more as looking for the highest Law rather than simply following all rules just for the sake of following them. Her main conflict is in detrermining which loyalties and responsibilties trump others. Sometiems even the most saintly person cannot have it both ways -- some sacrifices have to be made along the way.

I see Hanako as basically a good person who lacks certain traits to function in a normal society, but who does the best that she can. She knows that her mere presence is disturbing to others, so she withdraws or hides rather than initiate a confrontation and force others to accept her presence. She knows the rules and follows them when she can, but is willing to break them when she lacks the strength navigate the tight thread between (ironically) what is "expected" and what is "right". She knows her absences cause less distrubance than her public breakdowns.

[Tomate]

Words words words

I do like your view of Hanako as a token evil teammate. +1.