Ask!

[Atario]

Anything that we needed in the story, for whatever reason, was included, discussed and (in rare cases) decided upon.

What are some examples of things that got shot down in this process (and why)?

[Aura]

I'm not sure which things crud is thinking about, but at the very least I think he's painting a somewhat generous picture of us. Obviously there's a million things that were considered but didn't work out. The amount of actual script we wrote but isn't included in KS is greater than the amount writing that is in the story. Even on the level of small details as the original question described, I certainly seem to remember many idle discussions concerning whatever random stuff that had no bearing to the story. What crud is totally right about though, is that we never wrote bios for the cast, or (mostly) didn't decide arbitrary details before they were needed for some plot point. It was a characteristic quirk of 4LS's development "model", that despite our strongly distributed working environment (only four of us ever worked physically in the same space, and we were across all the timezones too), we documented very poorly. Instead we depended on a kind of a collective memory and lots of talking to keep "up to date".

Off the top of my head I can't think of that many things that would qualify for the "unnecessary detail that might've slightly fleshed out something but was cut" category.

One that comes to my mind was Suriko's attempt to flesh out Hisao's character by making his life's dream to be a jet fighter pilot (IIRC). It wasn't bad but it also didn't do much for the story, and because it was Hisao I demanded that every writer would've had to use the element. It didn't work out.

There were two side plots, one for Yuuko and one for the Nurse, that ultimately got cut. They're a bit different in that they weren't just random infobits, but actual story elements, but I'm sure they qualify.

On a slightly different but very related note, I actively refused discussing Rin's parents even with other devs, which resulted in the "Rin's parents" shimmie meme. Did you know that Rin is from Osaka? No, because knowing that isn't necessary.

I'm sure there were other things as well.

[Atario]

It was a characteristic quirk of 4LS's development "model", that despite our strongly distributed working environment (only four of us ever worked physically in the same space, and we were across all the timezones too), we documented very poorly. Instead we depended on a kind of a collective memory and lots of talking to keep "up to date".

I can fully see how that would be. But do you think that was a (or the?) major underlying reason for why development ended up taking so long?

One that comes to my mind was Suriko's attempt to flesh out Hisao's character by making his life's dream to be a jet fighter pilot (IIRC).

Haha, that's interesting. I'm now picturing Tom Cruise in Top Gun mode as Hisao. And I can now understand why he's got so many girls falling all over him.

There were two side plots, one for Yuuko and one for the Nurse, that ultimately got cut. They're a bit different in that they weren't just random infobits, but actual story elements, but I'm sure they qualify.

If you release what they were, I bet you'll launch a thousand fanfics. (Or at least more comments in the Headcanon thread.)

Did you know that Rin is from Osaka? No, because knowing that isn't necessary.

I didn't know that; do I know that now?

[Aura]

It was a characteristic quirk of 4LS's development "model", that despite our strongly distributed working environment (only four of us ever worked physically in the same space, and we were across all the timezones too), we documented very poorly. Instead we depended on a kind of a collective memory and lots of talking to keep "up to date".

I can fully see how that would be. But do you think that was a (or the?) major underlying reason for why development ended up taking so long?

It didn't really hinder us much. Way bigger factors were that in the beginning we simply sucked at making things, and that that it wasn't a job so the time and effort spent on developing was very variable.

Did you know that Rin is from Osaka? No, because knowing that isn't necessary.

I didn't know that; do I know that now?

Well, you really don't know I guess, if you subscribe to my view that none of the replies in this thread are necessary truthful, or at least that we reserve the right to change any facts at any time. Only the story in KS is indisputably true, this thread relies on (at the oldest, soon a decade old) memories from different people with different points of view.

[cpl_crud]

I'm not sure which things crud is thinking about, but at the very least I think he's painting a somewhat generous picture of us. Obviously there's a million things that were considered but didn't work out. ... What crud is totally right about though, is that we never wrote bios for the cast, or (mostly) didn't decide arbitrary details before they were needed for some plot point.

This was pretty much what I was getting at - pretty much everything that ended up in the script was required for the script - everything else was either idle discussion without a decision, or never discussed at all...

If the story needed a detail though, it was included, otherwise we would have ended up with endless chapters going into useless details that never had any bearing on the story. Thus there is little to no "hidden" head-canon; it's either in the script or it doesn't exist...

[TheHivemind]

There were two side plots, one for Yuuko and one for the Nurse, that ultimately got cut. They're a bit different in that they weren't just random infobits, but actual story elements, but I'm sure they qualify.

If you release what they were, I bet you'll launch a thousand fanfics. (Or at least more comments in the Headcanon thread.)

We never wrote them out entirely, because we cut them. In fact, most (if not all) of the material in question is still floating around in the game script itself, particularly in the case of the Nurse (that's not true, there was one scene in particular that would've made everything clear as crystal, but it was part of the...second draft of the Emi path, I think(?) which I don't have any copies of. Poor Yuuko never got resolution even in early drafts). Plus, the Nurse's role in Hisao's story got replaced by Mutou (or Misha, depending on how you go about it), so the planned dialog for that also got tossed out the window.

If you want bullshit straight from the...bull's ass (stay with me), you can find some staff-authored fanfiction that lays a few things out. I might have mentioned that before.

[Kon22]

Well, it's obvious that a lot of script and sprites were cut/replaced by newer versions but, was this the case for some CG? Or, by the time you got them drawn it was already clear which scenes were definitely gonna be on the script and which weren't?

[TheHivemind]

Well, it's obvious that a lot of script and sprites were cut/replaced by newer versions but, was this the case for some CG? Or, by the time you got them drawn it was already clear which scenes were definitely gonna be on the script and which weren't?

I might be wrong, but CGs were such a time-intensive process that I don't think we cut anything once production was well and truly underway. At the most, existing CGs were touched up or re-drawn, but that's it (also all the prototype art got tossed, because we changed artists).

[Valjean Lafitte]

Well, it's obvious that a lot of script and sprites were cut/replaced by newer versions but, was this the case for some CG? Or, by the time you got them drawn it was already clear which scenes were definitely gonna be on the script and which weren't?

I might be wrong, but CGs were such a time-intensive process that I don't think we cut anything once production was well and truly underway. At the most, existing CGs were touched up or re-drawn, but that's it (also all the prototype art got tossed, because we changed artists).

According to Raemz there's this unused Hanako CG from 2008 or 09. She said it was from when Hanako was still "suicidal and weird". Does anyone remember anything more specific about how this picture would have been used?

If the story needed a detail though, it was included, otherwise we would have ended up with endless chapters going into useless details that never had any bearing on the story. Thus there is little to no "hidden" head-canon; it's either in the script or it doesn't exist...

Would you say that Kenji being an avid bowler is a "hidden" dev head-canon? In your "Final Finale" fic you wrote about Hisao bowling with Kenji, Yuuko and their daughter, and in Suriko's recent Miki fic he wrote a whole scene of Kenji ranting about how no one seems to get that it's the greatest sport.

[cpl_crud]

Well, it's obvious that a lot of script and sprites were cut/replaced by newer versions but, was this the case for some CG? Or, by the time you got them drawn it was already clear which scenes were definitely gonna be on the script and which weren't?

I might be wrong, but CGs were such a time-intensive process that I don't think we cut anything once production was well and truly underway. At the most, existing CGs were touched up or re-drawn, but that's it (also all the prototype art got tossed, because we changed artists).

According to Raemz there's this unused Hanako CG from 2008 or 09. She said it was from when Hanako was still "suicidal and weird". Does anyone remember anything more specific about how this picture would have been used?

If the story needed a detail though, it was included, otherwise we would have ended up with endless chapters going into useless details that never had any bearing on the story. Thus there is little to no "hidden" head-canon; it's either in the script or it doesn't exist...

Would you say that Kenji being an avid bowler is a "hidden" dev head-canon? In your "Final Finale" fic you wrote about Hisao bowling with Kenji, Yuuko and their daughter, and in Suriko's recent Miki fic he wrote a whole scene of Kenji ranting about how no one seems to get that it's the greatest sport.

Too lazy to delete the other quotes, but this was the original (Grid 1) introduction to Hanako, and yes, she was suicidal and weird. There were a lot of roof scenes in Grid 1. I think I have an unhealthy obsession with the school's roof...

[Eurobeatjester]

I totally get what you're saying about only putting what you need in the script, because it isn't important if it doesn't pertain to the story.

Ironically, I understand this from a quote Bill Watterson gave about Calvin and Hobbes as to why Calvin's parents were never named in the ten+ years the comic ran. His response was that their names were unnecessary because they were only important to the comic as Calvin's Mom and Dad.

Same thing with Nurse, and the family or lack thereof from Mutou. The only relevance they have to the story is the roles they fill.

Two more questions, probably asked before, to keep the ball rolling:

Do the devs ever read any of the wonderful fanfiction this game has inspired? And if so, what are your general thoughts when reading it?

[Aura]

I generally don't read fan fiction, KS flavour or not. As far as I know, same goes for almost everyone else in 4LS, though I'm sure everyone has read at least a couple. Back in 2007-2008, I read the first 10-20 ever KS fanfics (fanfics of a work that didn't exist yet and wouldn't for several years to come!). That's my experience as far as fanfics go. Couldn't really tell what my general thoughts were, it's been such a long time.

[Eurobeatjester]

Looking back, is there anything you would change about the route of the girl you've written, or would you leave everything the same?

[Aura]

Could just as well answer "everything" as "nothing", or anything in between, to the question. I don't remember having any big single issues, but I'm the type that's never content. So, if I actually would set out to change something, I'd rather just rewrite the entire thing from ground up. But I wouldn't, it is what it is.

[TheHivemind]

Do the devs ever read any of the wonderful fanfiction this game has inspired? And if so, what are your general thoughts when reading it?

Occasionally, when the moon is full and for whatever reason I'm bored, I will randomly click around the fanfiction forum, consuming content without really thinking too hard about it, letting it wash over me like particularly strange rain.

I don't think it's all terrible, but I don't think it's all good, and for the most part I have a neutral opinion on it all. Occasionally I'll think "oh, that's a weird way to interpret the character," or "oh, I guess that works out pretty well," but mostly I come away from it all thinking "that was a thing I read" and not much more. That's not to take away from the good stuff, it's just that I always come away further convinced that I am not that interested in the setting anymore. Then I get bored and the cycle begins anew.

Looking back, is there anything you would change about the route of the girl you've written, or would you leave everything the same?

Nah, I'd leave it as-is. If I were going to change anything, it would be starting from square one and writing something completely new, because like Aura, I am so rarely content with what I've written.